Anyone been to Annecy

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The Independent reports that the 4 years old girl did not know the elderly Swedish/Iraqi women very well, and that she was not the grandmother.

They also report that UK police and security sources said that in spite of reports on the net the murder was not related to national security issues.
 
The Independent reports that the 4 years old girl did not know the elderly Swedish/Iraqi women very well, and that she was not the grandmother.

They also report that UK police and security sources said that in spite of reports on the net the murder was not related to national security issues.

"Annecy murders ‘were political assassination’ by hit squad"

"But John O’Connor, former head of Scotland Yard’s Flying Squad, told The Sunday Times that the facts point to a state-sponsored assassination rather than a family dispute.
“These murders were carried out by killers with the precision and planning that comes with military training, which normally points to a political assassination,” he said."

Read more: Annecy murders
 
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nick mercedes said:
"Annecy murders ‘were political assassination’ by hit squad"

"But John O’Connor, former head of Scotland Yard’s Flying Squad, told The Sunday Times that the facts point to a state-sponsored assassination rather than a family dispute.
“These murders were carried out by killers with the precision and planning that comes with military training, which normally points to a political assassination,” he said."

Read more: Annecy murders

The Independent begs to differ:

'...it is understood there is no link between the deaths and any national security issues....'

From:


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...tims-shot-twice-each-in-the-head-8119963.html


It all depends on who you prefer to believe. But again, adopting one view and not the other is still fair play.
 
From the Independent link above: "A Scotland Yard spokesman said they could not comment. But it is understood there is no link between the deaths and any national security issues."

This is the view of a Scotland Yard spokesman. He could not comment on surveillance by Metropolitan Police Special Branch during the second Gulf war of SAH and that is not exactly unexpected. It is also very unlikely that he would comment on the link to national security for the same reasons. However we do have witnesses who say that surveillance took place from their driveway of SAH and that he was followed. I find the Scotland Yard spokesman's comments to be unconvincing and unreliable.
 
This is indeed possible.

On the other hand, his next door neighbour was interviewed on Radio 4 and said the surveillance business was 'absolute nonsense' - the neighbour said he was a retired journalist and would know how to notice if anything was going on next door.

Again, I am not ruling-out state-sponsored assassination, or even Mossad assassination.

But it seems that at current most of the evidence pointing in this direction is either fabricated by bloggers (the Iraqi nuclear scientist rumour), or vague (his work experience assignment from 30 years ago, the MI5 surveillance, or the trip to Qom), or conjecture (the MoD secret gagging order).

I am waiting for something more substantial to emerge before I accept that this is a likely scenario rather than just a possible one.

And, as said before, none of the press around the world - including Arabic press and around the Islamic world - seem to have picked up on the state-sponsored political assassination theory.

Of course, we are all entitled to pick the theory that we want to believe in. But for me at the moment, I am firmly with the unexplained camp until further evidence emerge.
 
What are the objects on the BMW's roof rack? Looks like perhaps a bike carrier or 2 skis, one of which is broken at the tip.
 
Possible pertinent facts:-

Iran is trying to develop it nuclear weapons/reactor technology against international sanctions

A French nuclear fuel technologist is mysteriously murdered up a deserted forest road. Sylvain Mollier ---- Employé depuis vingt ans dans le secteur de la métallurgie – l’entreprise Cezus est une filiale d’Areva qui fabrique des alliages de zirconium pour les centrales nucléaires -

some background to the area that Sylvain Mollier's company worked in

The operating sites of the Enrichment business unit - AREVA

CEZUS Ugine activities: melting and forging - AREVA

At the same time a "technically literate " former Iraqi national ,whose family had to flee from the Saddam regime, and with recent links to Iran is found murdered with all his family up the same deserted forest road only metres away

The killing bears all the hallmarks of a Mossad assassination or professional hit.


All just an unhappy co-incidence then ? :rolleyes:
 
Possible pertinent facts:-

Iran is trying to develop it nuclear weapons/reactor technology against international sanctions

A French nuclear fuel technologist is mysteriously murdered up a deserted forest road. Sylvain Mollier ---- Employé depuis vingt ans dans le secteur de la métallurgie – l’entreprise Cezus est une filiale d’Areva qui fabrique des alliages de zirconium pour les centrales nucléaires -

some background to the area that Sylvain Mollier's company worked in

The operating sites of the Enrichment business unit - AREVA

CEZUS Ugine activities: melting and forging - AREVA

At the same time a "technically literate " former Iraqi national ,whose family had to flee from the Saddam regime, and with recent links to Iran is found murdered with all his family up the same deserted forest road only metres away

The killing bears all the hallmarks of a Mossad assassination or professional hit.


All just an unhappy co-incidence then ? :rolleyes:


So far so good.

The current theory is then that the French Nuclear fuel technician was going to sell secrets to Iran through the mediation of Mr. Al-Hilli, and Mossad 'interrupted' their meeting with deadly force.

This is not implausible as a theory, but it needs more facts, which at current failed to materialise. They may yet emerge, however, so it is still a strong candidate.

On the other hand, for one thing, we know that the rumours regarding the MoD gagging order are not true, because most UK tabloids repeated the MI-5 and Mr. Al-Hilli Nuclear past and general relationship with the Security services, as recent as yesterday and today, so clearly no gagging order is in force.

Also, while I admit that the Mossad killing theory is far more intriguing (and very infuriating at the same time) than a more simple explanation involving common criminality, I still think that the savagery and brutality of the attack, plus the totally unnecessary killing of Mr. Al-Hilli's family, are not a trade mark of political state-sponsored killing. As I mentioned before, killing the 'target's' family as an unindented consequence never stopped them before, e.g. car bomb or drone attack, but I can't find a single (confirmed) case where the family was also deliberately killed.

In addition, in recent years Mossad killings outside Israel (as opposed to the Israeli Army killing of Hammas activists in Palestine) were all carried out while attempting to make it look like an accident or death of natural causes - Al-Mabhouh in Dubai, the failed attempt on Mashal in Jordan, and even the renewed investigation into Arafat's death.

In addition, according to Wikipedia, the last assassination by Mossad carried-out on European soil was nearly 20 years ago.

Of course, it is not impossible that Mossad resumed European assassinations, and contracted-out the killing to local mercenaries - or, as they do in Iran, to the Iranian anti-regime resistance - who then botched it up.

Again, I am not ruling out Mossad involvement. I just wish that those who bring shreds of evidence in that direction will also look at the counter arguments rather than just jump into conclusions. It is interesting to note that in spite of the fact that the initial 'facts' pointing at Mossad were found to be fabricated, the theory lingers-on based on 'new' facts. This is not how impartial investigations are carried-out... hypothesis, facts, theory, then support or disproof... this is the correct sequence as those of us with scientific background can confirm.
 
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Possible pertinent facts:-

Iran is trying to develop it nuclear weapons/reactor technology against international sanctions

A French nuclear fuel technologist is mysteriously murdered up a deserted forest road. Sylvain Mollier ---- Employé depuis vingt ans dans le secteur de la métallurgie – l’entreprise Cezus est une filiale d’Areva qui fabrique des alliages de zirconium pour les centrales nucléaires -

some background to the area that Sylvain Mollier's company worked in

The operating sites of the Enrichment business unit - AREVA

CEZUS Ugine activities: melting and forging - AREVA

At the same time a "technically literate " former Iraqi national ,whose family had to flee from the Saddam regime, and with recent links to Iran is found murdered with all his family up the same deserted forest road only metres away

The killing bears all the hallmarks of a Mossad assassination or professional hit.


All just an unhappy co-incidence then ? :rolleyes:

And the British Agent tasked with keeping tabs on it all arrived after the event, and had to pretend to be an ex RAF man?

Hence the need for a whitewash to save face for our security service and to protect Israel...
 
America? Yes. But since when do the UK and France protect Israel? And why would we/they?

I accept that the first part of your post is a possible scenario, but the second make no sense. It sounds - again - like 'we know the Israelis did it, now let's find the why and the how'.
 
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America? Yes. But since when do the UK and France protect Israel? And why would we/they?

Because Israel would be quite happy to take out any 'facilities' in Iran or Iraq which doesn't fit in with the West's idea of how things should be. That sort of thing comes at a price.
 
What are the objects on the BMW's roof rack? Looks like perhaps a bike carrier or 2 skis, one of which is broken at the tip.

Where else did mystery RAF man get his bike from?

"The apparently broken roof rack in the photos?

Could a bicycle be carried up there? Was Saad going to cycle the Mountain Bike trail and then they were going to drive around to meet him? A good reason for using the road and how that it was known he was going to be there.

He was a keen cyclist:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012…ist-neighbours

Could the British cyclist not have been a cyclist until after the incident? Perhaps even breaking the window getting the bike down?

The road is only 3km long and were they at the very end?
How far ahead could the french cyclist be over a probably relatively fit English guy in just 3km? Not time enough for all this to have happened.

I still believe that if the 5 shots to the French cyclist are to be believed he wasnt expected but if there were lots involved in the shooting there would have been someone by the 3 km sign stopping any further traffic/forewarning of any.

Interested to know if he had a bike with him and whether it was still at the campsite.
Last edited by straw44berry; 09-09-2012 at 02:11 AM

The roof rack was used for a mountain bike it says so here:-

She said their dark red BMW had a mountain bike on a roof rack.

taken from:-

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/…-were-executed

about 3/4 down the article

I would bet money this is the bike being ridden by the British cyclist when police arrived"
 
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Because Israel would be quite happy to take out any 'facilities' in Iran or Iraq which doesn't fit in with the West's idea of how things should be. That sort of thing comes at a price.

Killing a British family on French soil?? There is no way that either Britain or France would have put up with that, Iran or no Iran. The Libyans were expelled for Yvonne Fletcher's murder. I can't see the UK government doing any less in this case if this was indeed true. It sounds like a very stretched excuse to try and keep the Mossad theory alive.
 
Killing a British family on French soil?? There is no way that either Britain or France would have put up with that, Iran or no Iran. The Libyans were expelled for Yvonne Fletcher's murder. I can't see the UK government doing any less in this case if this was indeed true. It sounds like a very stretched excuse to try and keep the Mossad theory alive.

Gerald Bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For some reason they're tolerated by the rest of the world, and can send hit squads to bump off anyone anywhere.
 
1) Gerald Bull was a grown up man, not a family with little children. You really have to assume that everyone in government and in the security services are heartless people, this can not be true.

Also, Gerald Bull was not the last assassination on European soil, it was followed by the assassination of Fathi Shaqaqi, head of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, in Malta in 1995. But - as I mentioned in earlier post - no (known) Mossad assignations took place in Europe since.


2) But the key argument against the Mossad theory is - again - lack of any resonance on credible news sites around the world. Some four days after the event, the theory does not seem to exist outside Internet forums, blogs, and 'alternative' news sites.

As I said - there is no gagging order - UK tabloids did mention various bits relating to MI-5 and other security-related details from his past - all of which were supposed to be included the 'MoD advisory notice' according to earlier posts - see bernie driscoll's post #65, quoting an anonymous 'Manchester based Journalist'. So we now know that this particular piece of 'news' was false - made up by an unknown blogger claiming to be a 'journalist'. And at any rate such gagging order - if it did exist - would not be enforceable outside the US and Europe.

Googling 'Annecy Mossad' does not yield any news website on the first page (MBclub are in the 6th place with this thread) - just blogs and talk-backs on forums. So Google is not gagged either - but the Mossad theory just isn't on there apart from on conspiracy-theory blogs.


3) I suggest you listen carefully to the video clip on this Al Gazeera link:

Police search UK home of Alps murder victims - Europe - Al Jazeera English

In spite of the fact that Qatari Sunis are no fans of Iran, there is no reason to believe that they will take part in a cover up to protect Mossad.


4) By their nature, allegations of gagging orders and cover-up can never be disproved because they rely on lack of any evidence as their 'proof'...


I still believe that the Mossad theory remains a possibility, but one that has not yet been reasonably explained, or supported by evidence. Time will tell.
 
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I still believe that the Mossad theory remains a possibility, but one that has not yet been reasonably explained, or supported by evidence. Time will tell.

"What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination"

"If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology."

Now which country has a history of sending death squads all over the world to kill it's political enemies, and more recently anyone connected with Iran's civilian power generation industry?
 
2) But the key argument against the Mossad theory is - again - lack of any resonance on credible news sites around the world. Some four days after the event, the theory does not seem to exist outside Internet forums, blogs, and 'alternative' news sites.

Lack of very much at all on news sites:

"Interestingly, the main French TV news on Friday night did not even mention the case. Total air silence. They mentioned it last night towards the end to show the house In Surrey being searched, but that was it.

There doesn't seem to have been any appeal for info, any public help requests, any hint of a reconstruction - and a French media clamp down.

Curiouser & curiouser...."

It's as if they already know what happened and just want they whole event to be forgotten...
 
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