Anyone else got W211 E class auto gearbox problems?

[avoyager]

Seems like there are many faults with the new E class!!!
I have a high miler (90K miles) W211 E270 CDI with tiptronic box which is playing up. Its vibrates when accelerating from 30 mph, it jerks badly when pulling away especially when going up steep hills and seems to be changing gear at wrong time and too frequently .
Dealer said they reset the parameters which didn't seem work.
I have since heard several police and chauffeur cars with similar problems having new boxes fitted, presumably all high mileage users. It seems the dealer is fobbing me off ,probably because there is a problem with availablity of boxes. Anyway at 6 grand a piece they are not going to be keen are they!
I pity all those owners of these cars 3 years down the road when the warranty runs out! What happened to Mercedes quality build I think it will be bye bye Mercedes for me and a trip to Audi or VW. (have you seen the VW Pheaton- great value + quality)

 

[marcos]

have you seen the VW Pheaton- great value + quality)

Yes I have, and there great value cos no one wants them, boring, bland and the same switchgear as is found in some skoda's, no thanks.

BTW the gearbox in the W211 has been around for years and if looked after will last ages, maybe a fluid change now and then would help

 

[Brian WH]

Seems like there are many faults with the new E class!!!

Thats a very General Statement, when you only talk of a problem with your gearbox.

I personally have had no problem with my E320 CDI and nobody else to my knowledge has reported gearbox troubles on a W211?????

 

[glojo]

I have since heard several police and chauffeur cars with similar problems having new boxes fitted, presumably all high mileage users.

Hi avoyager,
Could you please let me know the name of the Police Force and I will write to their Transport Manager.

Regards,
John

 

[silverarrow]

did you know some gearboxes over filled when new hence problems also sealed for life ummm umm as for audi look at jd power and lexus tops the table

 

[fuzzer]

hmm , our 211 is great no faults to talk about..

Except for it being heavy on the juice

 

[Robbo]

Do diesels have a MAS sensor?

 

[Roy]

Voyager's gearbox problem on E270CDi

very interested to hear of the auto gearbox problems experienced by Voyager
on his E270CDi... Not heard of any problems in this area. My son is a MB Dealer Principle and has not heard of any serious problems also in this area.

I am shortly going to purchase a 320CDi and will keep my fingers crossed.

if Voyager is thinking of changing brand, surely there is only one other quality car he can go for.

Not VW, not Audi. BUT a BMW530D .. One of the best cars ever built.
I have a 300TD merc and a 300SE BMW (3 series)... In many areas (although I love Mercs) the BMW diesel (comparing engine size etc) is much better...
The 530D BM did not win car of the year for 6 consecutive years on the trot for nothing. I have driven one and it is superb.
Roy

 

[silverarrow]

umm i have talked to plenty of customers at main agents and gearbox techs defn known fault with the valve control bodies and dirty atf tiny particles cause electrical gremlins hence they change atf and power flush drain leaves bits in the box suck out rather than drain 300 mls comes out more than drain with gravity

 

[avoyager]

In reply to some comments made - the one E class I know of was found to have engine coolant in the transmission oil (how does that happen?) which caused the gearbox to be knackered. The police E class I have seen are Avon and Somerset force and have a similar problem.
The latest E class has what Mercedes call "Driver-adaptive electronic automatic" a gearbox with sensors which make it learn and adapt to your style of driving. Data is built up over time and stored in memory. To try to fix my car the dealer wiped this memory and the car was returned to its as new state. The problem is not solved so back it goes!
Why did they need to make the damn thing more complex than previously.The old E class worked fine.What happens if 5 people drive the same car? How does it work that one out!

My cars are workhorses and are driven hard and long as was the previous model E class I owned - that car was faultless!
So far this one has had new injectors, turbo, wheels, central gateway curcuit board, ebc brake safety recall and possibly a new gearbox. Hey keep going at this rate and i'll have a whole new car soon!

 

[glojo]

The police E class I have seen are Avon and Somerset force and have a similar problem.
The latest E class has what Mercedes call "Driver-adaptive electronic automatic" a gearbox with sensors which make it learn and adapt to your style of driving. Data is built up over time and stored in memory.

Hi avoyager,
I spoke with the Fleet Manager of the Avon and Somerset Force a number of weeks ago on a number of issues including reliability and servicing issues. They were very impressed with the 320 and reported no problems of any significance. Servicing was carried out by the nearest Mercedes-Benz dealer to the individual Traffic Centre.

The 'adaptive' gearbox is quite old technology for Mercedes-Benz and is something even my Sprinter has.

To me it sounds like you have been very unfortunate in having a vehicle with the gearbox problem you have described.

Regards,
John

 

[Robbo]

Why did they need to make the damn thing more complex than previously.The old E class worked fine.What happens if 5 people drive the same car? How does it work that one out!

The 722.6 gearbox has been in use since 1997. It's true some of them did have some teething problems, but they were sorted out a long time ago.

Sounds like you have been unlucky, but are you sure its an autobox problem? If some of the engine management sensors are giving false readings then the ECU may be telling the autobox to change at the wrong times giving the symptoms you describe.

 

[Roy]

Hi Avoyager, Hi there John,

If I can dig out any more info on the gearbox problem from the 'stealers' up here I will report accordingly.

what was the mileage on the E270cdi when all this deadful stuff started to show ..?
regards Roy

 

[RichardM]

No gearbox problems on mine at 41k miles.

 

[avoyager]

what was the mileage on the E270cdi when all this deadful stuff started to show ..?
regards Roy

The mileage is 98 k

Sounds like you have been unlucky, but are you sure its an autobox problem? If some of the engine management sensors are giving false readings then the ECU may be telling the autobox to change at the wrong times giving the symptoms you describe.

Wouldnt that be picked up by diagnostics then.
What of the juddering?

I spoke with the Fleet Manager of the Avon and Somerset Force a number of weeks ago on a number of issues including reliability and servicing issues. They were very impressed with the 320 and reported no problems of any significance. Servicing was carried out by the nearest Mercedes-Benz dealer to the individual Traffic Centre..

Mercedes of weston-super-mare had 2 in a couple of weeks ago! A colleague of mine was having his fixed there at the same time.
My dealer at Swindon had a couple while I was there. Lets face it No Mercedes dealer is going to tell you anything if you asked them straight.Talk to the mechanics on the ground thay know what goes on.

 

[Shude]

Sounds like you have been unlucky, but are you sure its an autobox problem? If some of the engine management sensors are giving false readings then the ECU may be telling the autobox to change at the wrong times giving the symptoms you describe.

Wouldnt that be picked up by diagnostics then.

Not if the values are within the normal ranges, they might be a load of rubbish but how would it *know* they were wrong?

The ECU doesn't tell the auto box to change, the auto box has it's own computer and that decides what to do. This will probably be replaced with a genetically engineered rat's brain the future...(more...)

 

[glojo]

Mercedes of weston-super-mare had 2 in a couple of weeks ago! A colleague of mine was having his fixed there at the same time.
My dealer at Swindon had a couple while I was there. Lets face it No Mercedes dealer is going to tell you anything if you asked them straight.Talk to the mechanics on the ground thay know what goes on.

Hi avoyager,
I would expect there to be a very regular procession of Police vehicles in the Avon and Somerset Dealers because as I have said in my post of several weeks ago. These vehicles are serviced by local dealers. The vehicles cover approximately 90 - 100,000 miles per year. Seeing the vehicles at the dealers is to be expected.

I am NOT contacting dealers, nor am I speaking to 'mates' who may, or may not be spinning me a line. I am speaking to a senior managerial person that is responsible for the procuring of, running of, and safety of emergency vehicles. He certainly would not deceive, lie, or say anything misleading. If there are 320CDI's (in the plural)
that are having gearbox problems in the numbers you suggest then without doubt there would be a recall. I have NO idea of the number of vehicles purchased by Avon and Somerset, but if it were ten and two had problems that would be a 20% failure rate!!! If they had 20 and 2 failed 10%.!!!!

I belong to a forum for 211 owners and your symptom to my recollection has not been discussed. My car is certainly not perfect, I have had a number of electronic problems so I am not saying the vehicle is perfect. Far from it. You have every right to complain and every right to sight examples, but please make sure that you do not innocently give information that might not be factually correct.

Your information on the gearbox may be right, and mine might be wrong, but how many owners of the 211 on this forum have said they are suffering the same symptoms? I would expect the odd one because cars are mechanical objects that break. I would not expect to read of a percentage in double figures though.

Your friends information on the 'new' intelligent gearbox I am afraid does not vouch for his credibility. Although the buttons now are labelled slightly different. (comfort mode instead of Winter!!)

Good luck with getting your problem resolved,
John

 

[avoyager]

Your friends information on the 'new' intelligent gearbox I am afraid does not vouch for his credibility.

It was my info on "new"gearbox actually. OK so its not a new box, but it was much modified in 99/ 2000 with touch shift system (how often I find I have accidently knocked the stick across to find it trundling along in fourth and needlessly wasting fuel!) and also plastic parts were used internally to save weight. The W211 is an entirely new car with different dynamics. Maybe the latest engine outputs have overstreched its capabilies.
OK so my information on numbers may be enecdotal but I have no interest in whipping up hysteria. The mate of mine you refer to is another chauffeur company owner who has had a long line of Mercedes and has a similar interest in not buying lemons . OK all cars have problems-they are complex machines, but all this (not just the gearbox probs) points to a recent trend in unreliabilty caused by engineering to a level which is just adequate and not over-engineering which Mercedes has been famous for in the past. They are now more interested in making cars which are sexy, fast, sophisticated (unessesarily so) and flashy at the exspense of reliability. My problem is that many of my customers are blinded by the hype and want to be driven in Mercedes because they think they are the best car around (mistaken fools!) so Im stuck with the brand.
Extending that warranty for another 3 years at £1500 or so looks like a bargain to me. That's if you can spare the time sat at the dealership!

did you know some gearboxes over filled when new hence problems also sealed for life ummm umm as for audi look at jd power and lexus tops the table

lexus too boring - Jaguar are up there.
Look at Mercedes (ML) - bottom!

if Voyager is thinking of changing brand, surely there is only one other quality car he can go for.

Not VW, not Audi. BUT a BMW530D .. One of the best cars ever built.
I have a 300TD merc and a 300SE BMW (3 series)... In many areas (although I love Mercs) the BMW diesel (comparing engine size etc) is much better...
The 530D BM did not win car of the year for 6 consecutive years on the trot for nothing. I have driven one and it is superb.
Roy

trouble is Roy they arent quite big enough in rear and boot for my business use.

If there are 320CDI's (in the plural)
that are having gearbox problems in the numbers you suggest then without doubt there would be a recall.

Mercedes don't do recalls- not good PR- unless its for safety reasons (recent software update on electronic brake system being a case of) they tend to fix the problems without your knowledge if they can at the next service - trouble is gearboxes are trickier to do this.

Your information on the gearbox may be right, and mine might be wrong, but how many owners of the 211 on this forum have said they are suffering the same symptoms?

I would suggest that this is a fault which may be only coming to light at higher mileages - say100k

 

[GregE240]

My only comment is regards the transmission oil used in this type of gearbox (I have the same as yours in my W210). I had the oil changed at 94K (or thereabouts) which transformed the gearbox. Previous jerkiness had totally disappeared and the 'box was now much quieter and smoother. Best £120 I've ever spent on the car.

To say the fluid is fit for the life of the car is, in my opinion, bulls***, and if you believe hydraulic fluid can last that long, then frankly you are deluding yourself. The oil that came out of mine looked like treacle, with the consistency of it too. Given its the choice of £120 for an oil change or nigh on 2 grand for a new 'box, I know what I'd choose.

I'm not sure if you've had this done already, but it would be my first course of action.

I wish you luck, and am sorry to hear of your poor experience.

All the best,
Greg

 

[avoyager]

Hello Greg

I pay Mercedes (damn fool I am) to maintain my vehicle to its optimum performance and if the oil needs changing dont you think they would do it. They usually take every opportunity to fleece you so are unlikely to miss this one! Thanks for the comments though!