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Colleagues help issue with cold start!!! w168 A160

Discussion in 'Engine' started by DimitarYanev, May 15, 2014.

  1. DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

    Messages:
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    May 15, 2014
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Car:
    A160 (1999y)
    Hi guys I'm new in forum.Soon i bought A160 (w168) 1.6 gasoline,1999y.
    (manual gears).
    After almost an overhaul of the motor, remained a problem which it had previously.

    When motor is cold cant start.
    I need to turn over for 20-30 turns before it will start.
    After hard start motor not support 1200rpm. Immediately go to down (800-900) and triet to off.
    Once started whilst its warm the car starts first time.
    And car work fine and accelerates are good.

    My mechanic cant find whare is problem. :wallbash: I change and do those parts:

    1.Diagnostic with MB star diagnosis. (Only lambda sensor appears)
    2.All fiters (oil,fuell and air filters) are new.
    3.Checked Mass Air Sensor + Throttle. Are work fine and clean.
    4.My fuell pressure is 4.2bar.
    5.Fuell injectors are new.
    6.Coolant temperature sensor is new.

    Tnx in advanced to all whos answer me.
    My English is not very good if can explain me with simple words :D
     
  2. grober

    grober Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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  3. Twistedmind

    Twistedmind Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Could it be the crank sensor ?

    Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK
     
  4. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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    Car:
    A160 (1999y)
  5. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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  6. grober

    grober Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    THE CAR DOES HAVE AN AIR TEMPERATURE SENSOR. Bert Rowe's-Mercedes-Benz 'A'-class information. Engine sensor locations Altho I doubt that has anything to do with your problem and you have already checked the coolant temperature sensor??? Your problem sounds like a mixture adaptation one where the engine is not getting a sufficiently fuel rich mixture when cold. This can be due to many factors - manifold leaks down-stream of the air mass sensor, insufficient fuel pressure, etc.

    Don't know if your problem refers to starting in very cold conditions say in central Europe in winter but there is this blog from Russia??

    Ïåðåâîä÷èê Google
     
  7. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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    Location:
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    Car:
    A160 (1999y)

    Yes my coolant sensor is new.
    With star diagnose not have option to set fuell portions for injectors.
    As i said before i have new fuell filter and new injectors my cold fuell presure is 4.2 bar (this is maximum)

    Is the problem can come from Mass Air Flow MAF Sensor or ECU?
    If can, i saw any videos and in ebay some peoples do lifetime warnity tested
    ECU`s.
    What thay realy do?
    I can make a video how my car dont want start. And no errors.
     
  8. grober

    grober Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    As you know these cars have combined their ECU and MAF sensors together in one unit. This makes replacement very expensive and unless you have definite proof that this is cause of your problem I would hesiate to go down this path. You said you have inspected the MAF elements and they look OK?? Many firms that offer repairs merely replace the MAF element section. Usually a fault on the MAF/ECU unit will bring up the fault light on the dash which you have not mentioned.
    I had another look at Lofty's site and came across this.
    "Bert Rowe's Mercedes-Benz-'A'-class info"
    this section in particular!!

    Battery is good Engine turns over but Car Fails to start, after multiple tries eventually starts
    A couple of owners, baby-benz.com members have had problems with starting, after a great deal of work on one members part he found that the problem was the starter relay which was failing to sent power to the fuel pump.
    This fault which can be intermittent will not show up on diagnostics equipment.
    If you suffer from the same symptoms then you can easily test to see if it is your relay at fault by switching over two compatible relays, The relay powering the fuel pump is K7
    This can be switched with K10 which powers the rear screen heater. This at least will enable you to se if your problem is sticky relay contacts. Both of these relays are located on the main fuse board under the drivers feet. Fuse, Relay Chart
    and Main Fuse Board Note that both are Black cased relays, Part no Relay (002-542-13-19) You will only be able to obtain the correct replacement from mercedes-Benz parts and the cost is approx £10.00 26/10/08.
     
  9. E270 Owner

    E270 Owner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Sounds more like the cold start idle is not coming on.

    Check/replace the coolant temperature sensor.
     
  10. E270 Owner

    E270 Owner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Woops I see you have changed this already.

    Make sure the wiring's ok from the sensor to ECU.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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    Come on guys, enough with this Coolant sensor,reading up.
    Its not from coolant sensor. My new work normaly i measure it.

    Did have any program or tool to see what happens with those injectors on cold start?
    I still believe it MUST be programming like to see when injector starts a fuell,did it late or a enriched proportions or poor?
     
  12. Lord-WYBMAnE220

    Lord-WYBMAnE220 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Lamda sensors last around 100K and cause a variety of faults when screwed.
    Fairly easy to change - but be sure an aftermarket replacement has the correct length cable.
     
  13. E270 Owner

    E270 Owner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Did you swap the K10 and K7 relays to see if K7 is faulty?

    Have you checked for a spark at the spark plugs on the cold start cycle?

    Have you checked the fuel pressure under cold start cranking?

    Have you checked all earthing from battery to chassis?

    Have you the spare key?

    Does the car start immediately and run on the cold cycle when using Easy Start/carb cleaner etc?
     
  14. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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    Yes i try to swap the k10 and k7 and without result. Start from 4th turn.

    Sparks are new and spark plugs too (Bosch)

    Yes i have 4bars fuell presure

    Yes battery is new,and all fuses are ok.

    Yes i have the second key but the same problem.

    I dont want to try with this any (sprays) because my ECU and flowmeter are together.
     
  15. E270 Owner

    E270 Owner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    You know these are the cause of the low rpm problem on cold engines sometimes and possibly the problem with your cold starting, have you a unit to swap and test ?
     
  16. OP
    OP
    DimitarYanev

    DimitarYanev New Member

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    What do you want to say?

    My next step is to put a valve before injectors, to dont back my fuell down at tank.
    Although the filter should have this.

    And if this dont work i try other idea.To check carefully fuell pomp and put a supplement at fuell and test my ecu at service.
     
  17. E270 Owner

    E270 Owner Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    The fuel valve wont make any difference as the rpm are low and not on cold start high idle, the problem lies elsewhere, as I already said I would look at the ECU flow meter.
     
  18. caci0101

    caci0101 New Member

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    Dimitar, Something new about this problem?
     
  19. BlackC55

    BlackC55 Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    I would also check the timing.

    If it has fuel and spark it will run. If it's at the incorrect time it won't.
     
  20. forrera

    forrera Active Member

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