Driving Licence revoked

[AMGeed]

OK, a legal question which I'll ask in a second.

Some background....... my youngest daughters best friend passed her test less than a year ago. Around New Year, she was pulled over by traffic police and charged with driving without insurance.

Apparently unknown to her, the monthly direct debit for her insurance was unpaid due to insufficient funds and her insurance was cancelled.

She was taken to court and received a £300 fine and 6 pts, was forced to renew her insurance to retrieve her impounded car and her licence was revoked due to a new driver collecting 6pts within the first 2 years of driving.

I was told this evening she is still driving.
Allegedly she can continue driving until she receives a written letter from DVLA confirming her licence has been revoked.

My question. Is she risking being caught for driving without a valid licence whilst waiting for the DVLA letter?
Personally I think she is on risky ground but I would appreciate your opinions. I'm uncertain if I have been told the whole story.

Just to reiterate, not a family member called Dave or Davina!

 

[Driver15]

One would assume the revoke would be instant if ruled by the court.

Waiting for a letter is not correct... what happens if the letter never arrived.................



Edit -


http://www.drivingban.co.uk/driving...ence_has_been_revoked._Can_I_continue_driving

I have received 6 points but I've not been told that my licence has been revoked. Can I continue driving?

In the normal course of events the DVLA would write to you giving you 5 days notice of revocation. If you have not received such a letter, it is quite feasible that it has simply got lost in the post and revocation has been imposed without your knowledge. You should check with the DVLA to establish the status of your licence. If it has been revoked and you continue to drive, you not only commit the offence of driving otherwise than in accordance with your licence, but this would also invalidate your insurance which would lead to a further prosecution.

Personally... i would have a word with her if you feel you could.... or report her to the Police... no licence = void insurance (if she even re-enabled it. )

 

[Dave.tam]

From what I'm aware, the ban comes in as soon as she leaves the court, so I believe she may be driving without a licence.

I'm no traffic officer though, so I may be wrong, but I think I'm right!

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

Hasn't the person most importantly got to send their licence away to the DVLA?

When it comes to getting it back, they have to pay something like £70 IIRC

I know this as I got a totting up ban- before I even had a license

Had to pay to get my provisional back before (eventually) booking a test in 2014

 

[Dogbreath]

I'd have thought it was enforceable as soon as laid out in Court....if they need a date to go off they would have to use the court date rather than a few days,week later when the letter arrived, if at all. I got banned for speeding in the mid 90's and it started on that day they banned me..... But like yourself Roger, I have known to Be wrong lol

 

[AMGeed]

I'd like to ask (Megan) why her insurance company didn't inform her immediately her insurace was voided.

Also, I would have thought she would receive a letter or some communication from her bank advising a DD had been unpaid.

Something doesn't add up, so as I said, not sure I have the full story.

I will advise my nipper to tell her friend not to drive though. I thought a revoked licence was same as a ban and took immediate effect.

Cheers for the comments guys.

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

Either said person just couldn't afford the payments and knew it would get cancelled, or the insurance company strangely didn't tell them although they should. Even O2 are on your case if a DD fails on a phone contract

 

[AMGeed]

Either said person just couldn't afford the payments and knew it would get cancelled, or the insurance company strangely didn't tell them although they should. Even O2 are on your case if a DD fails on a phone contract

No idea Ash
It was around the Xmas period, she is a young single parent and I guess money was tight. Who knows?

Whatever, she has to retake her test including the touch screen part and her insurance will rocket when she has to declare her conviction for no insurance!

 

[Dippo]

The Highway Code says the licence is revoked automatically, so there's no "need" to wait for a letter:

"Where a person subject to the special rules accumulates 6 or more penalty points before the end of the 2-year period (including any points acquired before passing the test) their licence will be revoked automatically. To regain the licence they must reapply for a provisional licence and may drive only as a learner until they pass a further driving test (also see Annex 8 – Safety code for new drivers)."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/annex-5-penalties

 

[Dave.tam]

The Highway Code says the licence is revoked automatically, so there's no "need" to wait for a letter:

"Where a person subject to the special rules accumulates 6 or more penalty points before the end of the 2-year period (including any points acquired before passing the test) their licence will be revoked automatically. To regain the licence they must reapply for a provisional licence and may drive only as a learner until they pass a further driving test (also see Annex 8 – Safety code for new drivers)."

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/annex-5-penalties

Automatically in this context just means that there's no debate, it's an automatic ban, but I think what the OP was asking, was when the ban came into force.

When the police give a fixed penalty notice (FPN) for a driving offence, they have to make sure that if the ticket in endorsable, the points added to the licence don't take the driver over the points limit whereby they would incure a ban for 'totting up'. If it does, and the points for that offence take the driver over 12 points, or 6 points for a new driver with less than 2 years experience, then a FPN cannot be issued and the driver has to be processed and sent to court instead. When this happens, the driver can still drive until the court date, as no penalty has been imposed at that point, but as soon as the court impose the penalty, it comes into play, be it a ban, or anything else.

 

[gr1nch]

From what's been said the law has been applied fairly, but it seems a harsh set of consequences for a single oversight by a new driver. If it was a boy racer nearly knocking grannies over, it would make sense. But a single mum, who didn't receive a ticket for anything else? And experienced drivers are less likely to make that mistake, yet have an easier ride as they've 12 points buffer, if they do.

 

[stwat]

One ploy I have noticed from the many, Police Action Enforcers Traffic Front Line with cameras Interceptors with dogs, type programs, is that some take out pay monthly insurance just so they can print off the documents, then either cancel it or intentionally fail to pay the direct debits.

You see them stupidly trying to argue they do actually have insurance because, 'look, this is my policy document and it's fully legal, see'.

 

[Dryce]

My question. Is she risking being caught for driving without a valid licence whilst waiting for the DVLA letter?
Personally I think she is on risky ground but I would appreciate your opinions. I'm uncertain if I have been told the whole story.

My first thought was would be the same as if being banned because you reach 12 points and you make a court appearance. So the ban would be immediate.

But it does sound as if this is a DVLA led process rather than a court led process. So it is possible that she is actually OK ... waiting for the DVLA process to kick in.

However I would hope that hse actually has been given some proper advice - as opposed to making a convenient assumption.

 

[PobodY]

Personally I think she is on risky ground but I would appreciate your opinions. I'm uncertain if I have been told the whole story.

In a nutshell. - I don't know that I'd be entirely honest if I'd tried to pull a swift one and got caught-out.

It could be that she missed a payment around Christmas, then paid again in January and assumed her cover would continue. - It's quite easy to miss a DD when money is tight because you've spent it on gifts, and other things continue if you miss a payment.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

She was banned with immediate effect.

No question about it, she was banned with immediate effect.

Think about it, there's no way that the court would let a banned driver continue to drive "while the papers were being sorted out." It's not that kind of process.

If she's still driving, she is driving illegally and is uninsured - she may have paid for a policy but it's rendered void by the Court action.

She can find out when her ban ends by using this Government website:

https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications/overview

 

[Charles Morgan]

In my youth I received a ban for doing 108 on the M5. I attended court and was specifically told not to drive. I also had the pleasure while I awaited my turn in the dock to watch a man get sent down for drunk driving while disqualified - he got a month inside, it was his fifth time.

Your daughter's friend is behaving stupidly.

 

[flat6buster]

In my youth I received a ban for doing 108 on the M5. I attended court and was specifically told not to drive. I also had the pleasure while I awaited my turn in the dock to watch a man get sent down for drunk driving while disqualified - he got a month inside, it was his fifth time.

Your daughter's friend is behaving stupidly.

Same here (but 104 on the m5) and the worst bit is the hearing being where you are caught, not where you live, and then working out how the hell you get home because you don't have a license the second you walk out of court.

This girl is telling half truths. Fortunately it's a long time since I've been in the situation of not covering dd's but when I was (ahhhhhh, youth) the bank told me, the payee told me. No chance you miss the, ahem, reminders.

Make sure your daughter does not go in her friend's car.

 

[Charles Morgan]

The amusing thing about my ban was the court was in Cullompton, miles from anywhere. However, my mother came up from Plymouth in my old Audi 100 and gave me a lift to court, I think she enjoyed the day rather too much. After my ban, she dropped me at Exeter station for my first class train ride home, in perfect comfort. Meanwhile my old Audi decided to break down in Exeter leaving her cursing it and me. To round off the picture, my company Golf Gti, which had been the car in which I was speeding, got stolen while parked outside my sisters, so I was able to upgrade to a BMW 325i.

 

[brucemillar]

If I may.

She was driving illegally the second "after" the courts issued the ban (revoked). No letter is required. She could (some say should) have gone to court.

"She was taken to court and received a £300 fine and 6 pts, was forced to renew her insurance to retrieve her impounded car and her licence was revoked due to a new driver collecting 6pts within the first 2 years of driving."

Is she still paying her insurance? If yes. Then her she is insured and so is her car. She still must not drive as she has no license.

Her (post ban) insurance will have on record her:

Full post address.
Mobile
Land Line
email

They will have attempted to contact her via at least two of these methods?

Her bank will also have notified her, that her payments were not paid, due to "insufficient funds"

If she has an accident she "could" be going straight to prison as the courts will take a view that all of the above have been pursued and ignored by her so she is an immediate risk of re-offending (and she is). She then has the issue of no insurance to cover any losses suffered as a result of her accident by any third party including herself.

FYI: This is a well known scam for insurance companies, where drivers take out a policy with no intention of making the monthly payments, but every intention of obtaining an Insurance Certificate.

I am not saying your daughters friend was a scammer. But she has now, and will now, be seen as one, by the insurance companies. Were she to have a prang without a license she could well become un-insurable.

 

[Druk]

Is she still paying her insurance? If yes. Then her she is insured and so is her car. She still must not drive as she has no license.

Her (post ban) insurance will have on record her:

Full post address.
Mobile
Land Line
email.

I think this is also an important point because without insurance the vehicle would need to be sorned and kept off road. Betcha that's not a possibility.