European working hours directive

[Deleted member 6183]

Hi,

Apologies if I get the exact terminology wrong.

I have been sent sent a summary of this by HR with a letter attached where I can opt-out of the 48 hour working week by signing it.

I feel uncomfortable about this, I regularly work longer hours but don't agree with signing a letter which appears to formalise this.

However, it has made me consider the bigger picture. What if I don't sign and then have a massive car crash at the end of a 60 hour week> Could my employer say that I was working outside of the 48 hours and had not signed an opt-out so, therefore, I was outside of their juristriction?


Anyone have any experience of this?

 

[Scott_F]

Many people fought long and hard to win this protection for workers.

Don't sign your rights away.

 

[malluboy77]

Hi,

Apologies if I get the exact terminology wrong.

I have been sent sent a summary of this by HR with a letter attached where I can opt-out of the 48 hour working week by signing it.

I feel uncomfortable about this, I regularly work longer hours but don't agree with signing a letter which appears to formalise this.

However, it has made me consider the bigger picture. What if I don't sign and then have a massive car crash at the end of a 60 hour week> Could my employer say that I was working outside of the 48 hours and had not signed an opt-out so, therefore, I was outside of their juristriction?


Anyone have any experience of this?

Your insurance company may turn around and say you were working illegal hours if you were going to have an at fault accident. If your work is covered my a defence organisation and not by your employer, they may turn you down if there is a claim as well.

 

[Paul/]

I know many people who unfortunately felt obliged to work such hours (and was one myself before I made my recent escape), many of them never even received such a letter once the monitoring system was established. I doubt you have anything to gain by signing, you'd just be just waiving your rights, and if you "voluntarily" work the extra hours then I assume the employer can avoid responsibility for your crash scenario regardless of whether you sign.

 

[Palfrem]

You can chose to opt back in at any time you like

 

[Dryce]

Hi,
I feel uncomfortable about this, I regularly work longer hours but don't agree with signing a letter which appears to formalise this.

The joys of having to sign things - oh the paranoia.

And now you're worrying about car crashes.

The question you're being asked is simple. At its heart the European Working Hours legislation is there to stop an employer forcing (or possibly even bullying) workers into working loads of extra hours they don't want to work over an extended period of time. Do you want to be allowed to work these extra hours (and presumably be paid for them). If not don't sign. If you do then sign.

If you do not sign and you continue to work the extra hours out of choice then your employer will stop you working them. If you do not sign and your employer is making you work the extra hours against your will then ask them to stop.

 

[Dryce]

Many people fought long and hard to win this protection for workers.

Don't sign your rights away.

So if he wants to work paid overtime he shouldn't?

The legislation wasn't fought long and hard for here. It was dumped on the UK by the EU. As with most of these things I suspect its actual effect has been minimal apart from making HR departments go through hoops.

 

[SavMan]

Don't panic you can choose to opt back in which if I remember you have to give 7 days notice in writing to your Employer.

 

[Paul/]

Do you want to be allowed to work these extra hours (and presumably be paid for them).

Good point- I'd assumed that there was no payment of overtime.

 

[Scott_F]

The question you're being asked is simple. At its heart the European Working Hours legislation is there to stop an employer forcing (or possibly even bullying) workers into working loads of extra hours they don't want to work over an extended period of time. Do you want to be allowed to work these extra hours (and presumably not be paid for them if you work in most of the private sector). If not don't sign. If you do then sign.

If you do not sign and you continue to work the extra hours out of choice then your employer will stop you working them (No they won't - they love unpaid extra hours). If you do not sign and your employer is making you work the extra hours against your will then ask them to stop.

A couple of corrections for you.

 

[m2287]

If you want to do more than 48 hours, opt out. If you don't, then don't sign it. Simple!

 

[John]

If you don't opt-out, your employer might stop offering you 60 hours work and could limit you to 48 hours.

It's to protect employers.

We as a company opt out of it although I don't believe our company gets anyone to sign anything.

As said, you can opt-in again at any time.

Check your contract doesn't say 60 hours otherwise this changes things.

Working time limits (the 48-hour week) : Directgov - Employment

Opting out of the 48 hour week

If you are 18 or over and wish to work more than 48 hours a week, you can choose to opt out of the 48 hour limit. This must be voluntary and in writing. It can't be an agreement with the whole workforce.
You shouldn't be sacked or unfairly treated (for example refused promotion) for refusing to sign an opt-out.
You can cancel your opt-out agreement whenever you want - even if it is part of your employment contract. However, you must give your employer at least seven days notice. This could be longer (up to three months) if you previously agreed this in writing with your employer.
Your employer is not allowed to force you to cancel your opt-out agreement.

 

[matty.13]

Ive opted out for the last 5 years and it doesnt really affect anything . I often do 80 hours a week .

 

[SavMan]

Ive opted out for the last 5 years and it doesnt really affect anything . I often do 80 hours a week .

Is that your single handed attempt to get us out of recession

 

[dresho]

i opted out too - for doctors to do any extra private work or locum shifts they automatically make you sign this but as someone mentioned earlier you can change this back as you wish - its to protect both you and the employer and helps clarify things - for me anyway

 

[Scott_F]

It's to protect employers.

We as a company opt out of it although I don't believe our company gets anyone to sign anything.

The legislation is there primarily to protect employees. The likes of the CBI opposed its introduction.

There are certain exceptions to the rules but most organisations can't simply opt out if they don't like the terms of the directive or indeed any other aspects of employment law.

 

[matty.13]

Is that your single handed attempt to get us out of recession

You could say that . But in reality its because everyone needs there electric and the london network is probley the worst in europe .

 

[Spinal]

Put it this way, if you don't sign it and regularly work more than 48 hours a week, your employer is liable and they need to stop you from working those extra hours. Whether they ask you to do the extra hours or not is irrelevant.

Most people who get paid overtime are happy to sign, while most people who don't get paid overtime aren't happy to sign as it gives them an excuse to say "actually, it's 8pm and I've been here since 8am - I am going home to my family."

M.

 

[Dryce]

The legislation is there primarily to protect employees. The likes of the CBI opposed its introduction.

It was unnecessary.

Like a lot of these types of legislation they sound good to some people but in practice? .... they make no tangible difference and just generate paperwork and hassle for the people working at the sharp end of the economy.

 

[st4]

You could say that . But in reality its because everyone needs there electric and the london network is probley the worst in europe .

Good on you. I hope you get a good overtime rate for all those hours you do.

Personally, 35hours pw is ample and 60hrs is my limit for sanity.