Genuine AMG remap for standard 457bhp C63 ?

[RickMM]

I’m thinking about getting the Eurocharged V5 remap from MSL soon, and it just got me wondering why it’s not possible to get an “OE” AMG remap that would do the same job?

I believe the standard C63 is software restricted to prevent the throttle bodies from fully opening. Yet the same engine in the E class and other models produces a lot more grunt, and a remap will liberate much of this in the C class.

I appreciate that AMG Merc will not condone this and a map may be hard to get hold of, but is it even possible to remap a C63 with the relevant part of the E63 ECU programming?
Has anyone tried this successfully?

Just curious !

 

[S30MSN]

Hello Mate, I don’t see why you can’t put a map from an SL/S/CL/E 63 on to a C63; getting hold of one may prove difficult though (unless it can be easily ‘copied’ off an ECU from the bigger cars and put onto the C63).

Not sure how true this is but I always thought the reason the C63 ran in a detuned state was due to heat build-up after prolonged and/or hard use due to the limited amount of space under in engine bay of W204 around the M156 and nothing to do with ‘Marketing’ (where I’d read the C63’s were detuned due to Mercedes not wanting the smaller cars out running the bigger models on the Autobahns).

So the safest way Mercedes could increase power without the excessive heat build-up was to update physical parts on the engine and then have modified maps that took these changes into account (PPP, 507 and Black Series cars).

Not sure how accurate the above is, apologies if I’m way of the mark.

 

[RickMM]

Interesting point about potential heat build-up.
I'd assumed (only from reading on here and other places) that it was just a marketing thing, keeping the C in it's place against it's bigger brothers !

Given the number of aftermarket tunes available for the C63, it just seems odd that a standard AMG E or S tune never seems to get mentioned

 

[ecain63]

With the maps, you're not just applying a map from a database or off another car so applying an SL, S, ML etc map won't work.. The maps from Eurocharged, MSL, Weistec etc are all modified versions of your existing map, copied, adjusted and reloaded in order to retain the important start up data. With another map or ECU from another car your own car would not work unless totally recoded to match your original. Which voids the original idea of using another map or ECU.

Of course, your map can be adjusted to mimic an SLS, SL etc but the fact that the engine components are different in certain areas will also render that approach pointless.

Go for the reputed maps from the main players. Easy and reliable.

 

[S30MSN]

I initially used to think that too - lower power output due to where the C Class sits in the overall range.

But a very detailed/interesting post from a poster (Palmball if I remember correctly) when he was modding for his C63 made me think that it wasn't for this reason and actually due to heat extraction.

I've tried to find the thread for you but no luck - if anyone else can find it/knows what I'm talking about could you please post a link?

 

[RJ C63]

The engine bay is much smaller compared to the other models. More power = more heat.

 

[Lee C63]

You can certainly squeeze more power out of these cars.....and don't need to worry about heat....once you have long tube headers on (you can get some serious power)

 

[Simon_M]

You've nothing to worry about with heat, it's the fire that will do the damage!

 

[JohnBell]

You've nothing to worry about with heat, it's the fire that will do the damage!

You have mentioned that a few times, links ?

 

[Cousy]

If heat is an issue after tuning there are options available, Larger oil cooler, uprated radiator also the 507/BS bonnet vents and ducting modifications will improve cooling for engine oil and coolant water.

With the weather/temps in the UK I cant see the OEM equipment having an issue unless you are using your car hard on a track then the upgrades are probably required.

 

[Cousy]

With regards to the 507/BS bonnet this video shows the air flow through the vents (at 15 seconds onward)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D45ZPYzTSbM

 

[Simon_M]

You have mentioned that a few times, links ?

I have heard accurate reports that at least one tuner had a supercharger fire which was not publicised on the interweb as it would impact sales.

S

 

[RickMM]

During development of the C63, AMG must have tried different map parameters, and I can’t believe they don’t have a 500+ bhp version lying around in the vaults somewhere. I guess they’d just never release it to the public !


In terms of balancing the model range, BMW do the same with the M3 and M5. They’re never going to make the baby brother faster in most circumstances than the flagship! They just choose to do it with different engine designs rather than differing versions of the same basic powerplant.

 

[RickMM]

I know that others have commented on this before, but I presume the major benefits of de-restricting the airflow are likely to be felt higher up the rev range, say above 4k ?

Having had previous cars and bikes remapped, I’m aware that there are other potential benefits (driveability, etc) but I don’t think “driveability” is a particular weak point in standard form.

 

[Lee C63]

I know that others have commented on this before, but I presume the major benefits of de-restricting the airflow are likely to be felt higher up the rev range, say above 4k ?

Having had previous cars and bikes remapped, I’m aware that there are other potential benefits (driveability, etc) but I don’t think “driveability” is a particular weak point in standard form.

Makes a difference all through the rev range as you get a good gain in Torque.

Sounds different and pops and bangs more when it shifts down (with the Eurocharged map).
I mapped mine (eurocharged) and was blown away with the difference in power and performance......only downside is once you start on the power quest it doesnt really stop and becomes expensive lol

 

[MC63CLK]

With regards to the 507/BS bonnet this video shows the air flow through the vents (at 15 seconds onward) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D45ZPYzTSbM

I'd like to achieve better ventilation and the look of my bonnet. CLK W209.
A C63 bonnet look would fit the bill perfectly with the ducts and bulges I think.
I seem to remember a couple of guys having work carried out at Projex in Bristol, any feedback on them or any other companies I could speak to regarding this cheers Mike

 

[RickMM]

Makes a difference all through the rev range as you get a good gain in Torque.

Sounds different and pops and bangs more when it shifts down (with the Eurocharged map).
I mapped mine (eurocharged) and was blown away with the difference in power and performance......only downside is once you start on the power quest it doesnt really stop and becomes expensive lol

It's an interesting point. I've seen some before/after dyno charts on here and elsewhere that show a separation of the torque/power curves right through the rev range, and yet others only show a discernible separation above a certain point (usually around 4-4500 rpm).
Getting the optimal air/fuel/ignition mapping lower down could (in theory) yield better results regardless of de-restricting airflow at the upper end.
Maybe just different maps from different tuners ?

 

[Lee C63]

It's an interesting point. I've seen some before/after dyno charts on here and elsewhere that show a separation of the torque/power curves right through the rev range, and yet others only show a discernible separation above a certain point (usually around 4-4500 rpm).
Getting the optimal air/fuel/ignition mapping lower down could (in theory) yield better results regardless of de-restricting airflow at the upper end.
Maybe just different maps from different tuners ?

All about the area under the curve....
If you know the right people you can spend hours with the car on the dyno setting it up properly.
If its set up it may make less "headline" figure BHP but will put it down better throughout the rev range giving you much better overall performance.....I know this is a service MSL can offer.

 

[RickMM]

All about the area under the curve....
If you know the right people you can spend hours with the car on the dyno setting it up properly.
If its set up it may make less "headline" figure BHP but will put it down better throughout the rev range giving you much better overall performance.....I know this is a service MSL can offer.

I can see this thread is gonna hit me in the pocket big time soon !