Insurer botched-up repair, refusing to fix, obvious from photos

[faa77]

Long story but i'll keep it brief:

-Other person's insurer arranged bodyshop to do repairs
-Door was replaced
-I can hear air entering door but weren't sure where exactly
-Garage couldn't care less
-Insurer asked Hoopers to look, they couldn't hear anything, suggested seal "hardened"
-I found exact location in door, gap in seal is large
-My garage have taken attached photos (attached here) and it's obvious door not fitted properly and seal has large gap
-Sent pics to insurer, they don't care because Hoopers report exonerates them
-Spoke to Hoopers engineer himself, he's not allowed to update the report

I can afford the repairs myself, but I would like to claim this back. Do you think it would stand much chance in small claims court? The problem I have is Hoopers' report because they are "official" and "independent".


To me, from the photos you'd have to be an idiot to argue the door isn't fitted properly, regardless of the air entering.

 

[bob6600]

Insurance repairs have to have a warranty. If your insurance aren't willing to help, I would speak to the Ombudsman

 

[faa77]

Insurance repairs have to have a warranty. If your insurance aren't willing to help, I would speak to the Ombudsman

It's not actually my insurer, its the other party's insurer (they were at fault).

I just took a look at the Ombudsman website and they have this case study:

After an accident, Mr F’s insurer agreed to repair his car’s bodywork. But they said the engine damage had been caused over time, not by the accident.

Mr F told us his car had passed its MOT before the accident, so the engine couldn’t have been damaged then. The insurer sent us a report from an independent engineer. This was very detailed, including photos of the rust on the engine and comments about long-standing engine damage.

We explained that the MOT proved that the car was safe to drive, but not that it was damage-free. In light of the engineer’s detailed, independent view, we decided the insurer’s decision was fair.

car repairs - Financial Ombudsman

I worry they will ignore my photos and say something similar.

 

[Deanmac]

Did you not deal with your own accident management company who arrange repairs and courtesy car

I had someone reverse into me the other week. Put his tow hitch through my front bumper.
Phoned my insurance company who got there accident management company to arrange repairs by there approved repairers in my area. I had used the approved repairers they recommended before and were not happy with there service.

So I phoned my local Mercedes dealer who put me in touch with a prestige accident management (Bristol and London) company who only use Mercedes approved body repairers. Also I had a E63 AMG on hire from them while mine is being repaired which is all charged to the other persons insurance as they were at fault.

 

[bob6600]

I know it's not your insurer, but you can only contact your insurer to pursue it. If you can get a garage approved by your insurance to say it's a bad repair, you have a good chance.

That case study is based on claiming for engine and body repair. This is a poor repair. I'm sure if you take it to Mercedes (and pay for a report) this will be in your favour, especially if they say it's out of tolerance. If you have any pre-accident pics, these will help. If not, see if there is another vehicle at the dealership you can take pics of.

It's not just the seal, the door shuts are wrong as you pointed out and imo would affect re-sale as it would be obvious to me the car has had an accident and not repaired correctly.

 

[faa77]

I think this partially explains what has happened:

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

So I phoned my local Mercedes dealer who put me in touch with a prestige accident management (Bristol and London) company who only use Mercedes approved body repairers. Also I had a E63 AMG on hire from them while mine is being repaired which is all charged to the other persons insurance as they were at fault.

That cost the other parties insurer an absolute fortune, the cost of which is ultimately passed on to it's policy holders.

 

[faa77]

I'm sure if you take it to Mercedes (and pay for a report) this will be in your favour, especially if they say it's out of tolerance.

I'm just trying to find out about this. I'm fairly certain what Mercedes would conclude!

 

[Tuercas viejas]

OK I know I am in the USA as a Brit but i do deal with this type thing fairly regularly as shop owner and have been called by plaintiffs attorneys to act as an expert witness many times !
What you are talking about here is the word "supplement" as applied term in the collision repair insurance/repair business .
The indemnifiers adjuster usually works on commission basis so there is no reason for him to update his report as he will lose his commission.

The tack if this was in the USA and I see no reason why this can't work in the UK is that you locate an attorney in law (solicitor) who deals with insurance claims such as these matters.
This going to cost you some upfront cash which hopefully yoiu will get reimbursed through costs at judgement .
Get a good faith estimate from a reputable collision repair shop and present it to the attorney. bolster it with an engineer's report as potential evidence called discovery in law
Don't try doing this by yourself & small claims courts, the outcome is rarely positive.
Just let the expert attorney deal with it as he has contacts in places where you won't get to.
All the best and remember stay strong and persevere you are not alone, as there are many folk like you on both sides of the pond dealing with this crap on a daily basis!
Tuercas Viejas

 

[mark44]

I had a rear shunt in my 'at-the-time' pride and joy and the other parties repairers did what I thought was a kak-handed job with obviously uneven shut-lines around the hatch-back (it was a golf).

I rejected the repair, and the insurer offered to allow me to use my preferred authorized repair shop. It transpired the shell was warped, and 'my' repair shop had to first use some sort of hydraulic rack to stretch out the shell, instead of just replacing the damaged panels as done initially.

It would have been a very expensive process if I'd foot the bill - which needless to say - I didn't. Good luck - whether you persist with the corrective surgery is of course up to you - but to me it would be a matter of principle, and I wouldn't let them off the hook until I was satisfied with the outcome otherwise it would eat away at me every time I looked at the car!

 

[grober]

If I have got the sense of the pictures correctly it looks as if the door isn't hung on its hinges correctly as you have deduced already. Where exactly was the door damaged ? Was the door front-rear pillar/hinge area involved at all or primarily the door skin? May only require adjustment by someone who knows what they are doing or be symptomatic of something more serious

 

[Tuercas viejas]

I had a rear shunt in my 'at-the-time' pride and joy and the other parties repairers did what I thought was a kak-handed job with obviously uneven shut-lines around the hatch-back (it was a golf).

I rejected the repair, and the insurer offered to allow me to use my preferred authorized repair shop. It transpired the shell was warped, and 'my' repair shop had to first use some sort of hydraulic rack to stretch out the shell, instead of just replacing the damaged panels as done initially.

It would have been a very expensive process if I'd foot the bill - which needless to say - I didn't. Good luck - whether you persist with the corrective surgery is of course up to you - but to me it would be a matter of principle, and I wouldn't let them off the hook until I was satisfied with the outcome otherwise it would eat away at me every time I looked at the car!

This is an interesting point of interest to me.
These days do insurance companies in the UK insist on you taking the damaged vehicle to one of THEIR prefered repair/collision repair shops?
This is called "steerage" in the business and is the first area of dubious repair shop practices in the trade on this side ( a big red flag to me for starters) . In some areas of the USA it's allowed! Other places like here in Colorado its illegal and you can present your damaged vehicle to who or what shop you prefer to get it put right.
Dealing with insurance companies are never easy. I would say that for every hour of actual repair involved in the execution of the job, I spend an additional hour getting repair resolutions/.approval/reimbursement agreements and doing unnecessary admin work and that does not include me being told to install parts from wrecking yards that are below par and rejection of the same !!
Never easy
Tuercas viejas

 

[faa77]

(To everyone)

Hi, sorry for the delay in replying. The garage agreed to take the car back and re-do the repair. They have now made the door look more-aligned, I can't see any obvious gap now and I believe it has helped the problem. For example, I used to be able to hear air at 50-55mph but now I can barely hear it. However, on the motorway I can still hear the problem clearly. So I'm wondering if its a case of half-fixed, just a bit to go?

One thing I have noticed is that when I now open the door I hear a "ping". I'm guessing (not being an expert) that the door is not vertically-aligned and so the latch is under stress when shut, then when it opens it immediately pings upwards, causing the noise? I'm hoping its just a case of moving the door vertically-up by a few mm to solve both the ping and the remaining air leak.

If I have got the sense of the pictures correctly it looks as if the door isn't hung on its hinges correctly as you have deduced already. Where exactly was the door damaged ? Was the door front-rear pillar/hinge area involved at all or primarily the door skin? May only require adjustment by someone who knows what they are doing or be symptomatic of something more serious

Hi, I have attached a photo of the damage to this reply.

 

[brucemillar]

All I can add here and it may not help, but is based on hard fought experience.

1) You need to get somebody at your insurer to take you seriously!! Do this by writing a very polite and considered plea for their help, include words and phrases like:

Loyal Customer
Seek your assistance
Just wanting this repaired to the standard it was prior to the accident
No betterment involved

2) Lay out exactly what your issues are and offer them the opportunity to drive the car to witness the issue, or get (using somebody else) a good quality video clip with sound that demonstrates your issue.

The rules that govern Insurers, in motoring claims are very simple, namely: You should be put back in the position you were prior to the claim, without betterment (unless agreed by both parties) ie. It may not be sensible or agreed to paint half a panel to repair paint damage, but would be "betterment" painting the entire panel. Both parties can agree how to proceed (trust me I know this)

In your case it should be binary:

1) It didn't have wind noise prior to the repair.
2) It now has wind noise that started immediately after the repair.
3) The arbiter: Does a similar car have wind noise - Yes / No? If it does not? Then they should repair your car regardless of any wear & tear arguments around the door seal. These are redundant as you can evidence another car that does not have the issue.

You will usually find that a good, plea in writing to the Customer Relations Director of your insurer will get them back on board and wanting to help you.

Good luck.