Legal help/Advice Required Please.

[brucemillar]

Friends

I have been summonsed to court to explain why I did not declare who the driver of my was in 2013 when it was photographed at 65mph on the M25 in a temporary 60mph limit.

I did declare to the court in writing that it was me and that I was also the registered keeper etc.

I heard no more (honestly) nothing, zero, zilch.

Shortly after, my cancer nightmare began and I spent the following years until now in and out of hospital. My wife was granted probate of my affairs, as my condition deteriorated and I was placed onto Palliative Care. My wife, who files and stores everything (and I mean everything) confirms that she also heard nothing from the courts.

Now in July 2017, four years later. I have been summonsed to appear at court in person charged with failing to disclose the driver and fined a massive £2000 if I fail to do so.

I protested in writing stating (as above) that I had disclosed that I was the driver and that I was speeding and that I had been very ill and not received any response(s) to my previous letters etc.

They have responded by setting new court date (this Monday)for me to appear in person despite my illness. They have stated that I must bring with me written proof of my illness, dates times, hospital visits, surgery etc.

I am dreading this and have no desire to go but an irrational feeling to simply run and hide.

After four years can they simply do this?

We have not changed address or any contact details but they have changed courts and contact details on numerous occasions. Failure to pay may result in prison!!

HELP PLEASE??

 

[neilrr]

Bruce,

Post your post ^^^ on FightBack Forums for (mostly) accurate advice.

 

[merc85]

Bruce,

Post your post ^^^ on FightBack Forums for (mostly) accurate advice.

^ This, Is a really good forum and really a good place to get advise, It certainly helped me. I wish you all the best Bruce i really do bud.

 

[GeeJayW]

Nightmare! Bloody bureaucrats, paid for by our taxes to persecute us! I'm sure they hear all kinds of 'excuses' all the time, but there should be a mechanism to recognise genuine cases.

Given the tight deadline for the court case, I think it would be sensible to take some legal advice. Could also contact citizens advice.

Good luck, I hope you get some sensible outcome.

 

[markjay]

Sorry to hear this. Hope it gets sorted quickly. I can't imagine the court won't be sympathetic, not just due to your illness but also because you are not actually denying being the driver at the time...

On another note, should they not have applied the '10% plus 2mph' guideline? I am aware it's only a guidline, but odd that they decided to prosecute in the first place.

Also - to clarify - at this point you are being charged only with non-disclosure but not with the original speeding offence?

 

[brucemillar]

Mark

It is all very unclear (which is causing more uncertainty)

The paperwork refers to the non-disclosure and implies that I am guilty as they have no record that I replied. NOT that they may have lost it, misplaced it etc.

 

[Doodle]

Your reply ended up in the same black hole as the paperwork they claim to have sent you.

 

[clk320x]

Mark

It is all very unclear (which is causing more uncertainty)

The paperwork refers to the non-disclosure and implies that I am guilty as they have no record that I replied. NOT that they may have lost it, misplaced it etc.

Ouch.. this is why I always reply to this sort of thing via Recorded delivery

You wouldn't happen to have any proof of posting/reciepts for sending it would you?

It's ridiculous for this to be taken so far. Especially taking your health into account. I wish you well for the future

 

[brucemillar]

Ouch.. this is why I always reply to this sort of thing via Recorded delivery

You wouldn't happen to have any proof of posting/reciepts for sending it would you?

It's ridiculous for this to be taken so far. Especially taking your health into account. I wish you well for the future

Sadly no. A change of computer last year saw that disappear. If honest we figured it had just gone away, given the 3 year silence.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I can't offer any help but I do hope that common sense quickly prevails.

 

[grober]

To put this into context this almost certainly is a product of the HISTORIC DEBT TEAM in the Department of Justice set up by the Government in September 2016.
Letter asking for historic HM Court debt over 8 years after court hearing - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

HMCTS Historic Debt Team ? Bailiff Advice Online
this might help??
https://www.resolver.co.uk/companies/historic-debt-team-enforcement-complaints

 

[brucemillar]

Graeme

It is indeed the Historic Debt Team that kicked this off. They contacted us in writing and when I called them back (big mistake it seems but I had nothing to hide) they immediately informed the courts that I was still at this address. I never said I was not and have not moved or changed any contact details or employer etc. I have always been contactable and traceable. I simply never ever received anything until now.

 

[PobodY]

I can only recount the story of how my mother received a fine for speeding in the car she'd inherited when her mother died. - My mother lives in Australia, so it was actually me that was driving.

Long story short, she never received the fine because you can't be the registered keeper of a car if you're not resident in the UK and a summons duly appeared.

My wife was fortunately able to attend the court and explain the situation. - Case dismissed (with a bit of admonishment about the registered keeper).

 

[clk320x]

Sadly no. A change of computer last year saw that disappear. If honest we figured it had just gone away, given the 3 year silence.

Exactly... no one would keep the receipts after 3 years anyway

If you do turn up to court, the judge should dismiss it as long as he/she is fair

I'm sure you will be fine Bruce..

People committing such crimes and they still pick up on these petty little things

Best of luck

 

[grober]

a quote:-

The government set up the HMCTS Historic Debt Team in September 2016 as a pilot scheme to recover outstanding court fines that have remained unpaid for a period of up to 10 years. In many cases, the reason for the fines not being recovered had been due to individuals moving address etc. In March 2017, the government announced that since its launch, the HMCTS National Compliance and Enforcement Service had recovered ‘significant sums’ and as a consequence, the Historic Debt Team had expanded their tracing activities to recover outstanding court fines over 10 years old.

 

[219]

Bruce , very sorry to hear this , and I agree obtaining proper legal advice would be the way to go .

One snippet I might add is that the court laid upon you a legal obligation to respond in writing to their enquiry - which you did .

Under those circumstances , I would think the Interpretation Act applies , where by posting a correctly addressed and prepaid letter you have fulfilled your obligation and the letter will legally be deemed to have been served ( delivered ) . If they don't seem to have it , that is their problem , not yours , and the onus would be on them to PROVE you never posted it , not the other way round .

It works for DVLA .

 

[zipdip]

The worlds gone crazy,I am sure if you tell the court that you have never moved and ask them to show you the documents you should have received,along with your health records,and given it has been 3 years,maybe use 192 and print out that you have been on the voting list at that address ,it might help,3 years ago they did not have the practically zero tolerance of speeding on the M25,so as it is a old case the fine should be £60 and 3 points,maybe you should be cheeky and ask to go on a driver awareness course as you were not aware that this had not all been forgotten by now.

 

[grober]

On rereading your initial post Bruce I have to assume that the charge you are facing is "failure to disclose" --- hence the summons to make a personal appearance rather than just pay a fine. Because this can have more serious consequences than the speeding fine itself I would suggest taking legal advice PDQ!!
Failure to Identify the Driver of a Motor Vehicle - What to Expect

https://www.ashfords.co.uk/article/what-is-failing-to-provide-driver-information

 

[pmcgsmurf]

Sorry thing to hear, best of luck.

I'd be interested in how they have informed you, "signed for mail"?

If not are they not in the same position as you as there is no proof you received this.

 

[brucemillar]

On rereading your initial post Bruce I have to assume that the charge you are facing is "failure to disclose" --- hence the summons to make a personal appearance rather than just pay a fine. Because this can have more serious consequences than the speeding fine itself I would suggest taking legal advice PDQ!!
Failure to Identify the Driver of a Motor Vehicle - What to Expect

https://www.ashfords.co.uk/article/what-is-failing-to-provide-driver-information

Graeme

The hearing is a 'Remittal' hearing and does appear to be dealing solely with me producing evidence to my 'non-payment of fine'.

Now it gets more mysterious. I have (in my absence) been found guilty of speeding, fined and then pursued for payment.

On checking my licence today with the DVLA, I have ZERO points and ZERO Disqualifications and it is valid until 2023.

So where did the endorsements and points go to when I was found guilty?

I am not as concerned now as I was, having spoken to various professionals today who have all given sound advice. Namely:

Do as asked in the letter and provide the evidence they are requesting. Offer them no more and no less and volunteer nothing.