Legitimate policing or big brother attitude?

[kbhogalW126]

Forgive me for my ignorance.

When Her Majesty's Constabulary are stopping people what do they ask for?

Personally, I leave the Insurance certificate, V5, and paper part of my license at home safely and carry my photocard.

Surely they give you 7 days to "produce" these documents at a local copshop.

Its not safe to leave these docs in your car just in case its stolen.

On a personal note, I've gone through about 5 cars over the past few months and ive now got a pile of documentation from the Insurance Company.

How often are the databases updated?

I'm sure its not been updated immediately after I've changed cars.

I take delivery of a Golf on Wednesday.

So would that mean if I call up my insurance company on tuesday night to get the car covered from midnight (wednesday am) and that if I get stopped by the Police on Wednesday morning after delivery they will think that I am driving uninsured and confiscate the car?

Please advise.

I apologise in advance if I have said anything wrong!

regards,

KJ

 

[219]

Don't know about south of the border , but there have been a few instances here in Scotland of the Police impounding vehicles and handing out ASBO's to the drivers of certain vehicles being driven in an 'anti-social' manner . Local newspapers have reported this .

I think this is aimed at the 'boy racer' , 'noisy exhaust' type brigade who seem to be becoming ever more present on our roads these days .

As I understand it , these people , if seen driving 'inappropriately' are pulled over and given a warning ; if the offence is repeated , the vehicle is impounded on the spot and they have to walk home .

 

[nick mercedes]

So, I steal your car, the camera says the car is taxed, insured and mot'd, no problem, but I am not the owner, I have just stolen it and it has yet to be reported, or someone has cloned your car registration, again, taxed, mot'd and insured, no it aint. That is why I am in favour of a little inconvenience to make sure these people and people who also break the law, no tax, no mot or no insurance are taken off the road.

No offence intended

But that's like saying the police should raid everyones house on the off chance they've got a stolen telly.

 

[nick mercedes]

Don't know about south of the border , but there have been a few instances here in Scotland of the Police impounding vehicles and handing out ASBO's to the drivers of certain vehicles being driven in an 'anti-social' manner . Local newspapers have reported this .

I think this is aimed at the 'boy racer' , 'noisy exhaust' type brigade who seem to be becoming ever more present on our roads these days .

As I understand it , these people , if seen driving 'inappropriately' are pulled over and given a warning ; if the offence is repeated , the vehicle is impounded on the spot and they have to walk home .

It's a slippery slope when the police can act as courts and seize people's property...

 

[219]

They do seem to be very quick in updating the database , John (Glojo) told of an accident his son was involved in the day after picking up a car and his details were on the database .

 

[BTB 500]

First off, going by what gets reported in the papers ... a huge proportion of people who get jailed for killing someone through reckless driving etc. were driving uninsured / banned / un-taxed etc. So if they'd been taken off the road beforehand by one of these spot checks, an innocent life (or lives) would have been saved.

Secondly, as far as I know these checks are mostly automated now ... using ANPR (numberplate scanning) kit. So you're not going to be pulled over at all (inconvenienced), unless your plate triggers an alarm for some reason. This technology is increasingly being fitted to ordinary patrol cars, to be left running continuously while the officers go about their everyday duties. So setting up by the side of a main road once in a while doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Pulling suspect vehicles over is obviously safer and more controlled that way (less risk to other road users).

 

[219]

But that's like saying the police should raid everyones house on the off chance they've got a stolen telly.

With all due respect , 'stolen telly's' don't crash off the road , killing , injuring & damaging property then leaving the victims to pick up the pieces .

 

[nick mercedes]

With all due respect , 'stolen telly's' don't crash off the road , killing , injuring & damaging property then leaving the victims to pick up the pieces .

They don't walk out of people's houses on their own either.

All these cameras and roadside checks point to slack policing on the cheap...

Rather than proper police we'll just end up with a "computer says no" system which relies on people to prove their innocence rather than the other way around.

 

[glojo]

Now, may I respectfully suggest you make the first coffee of the morning decaf and go easy with the accusations of idiocy?

Fair cop,
Pain is trying to rule brain, but I say this to both you and Shude.

I steal your car, you are walking to-wards a Policeman that has stopped me. As you approach the officer, I drive off in your car!

When you or Shude very politely ask the officer why he let me drive off, he politely states I refused to co-operate so he let me go!!

Would you thank him for being polite?

Imagine the scenario

"I'm sorry Sir but your details do not match those we have on record for you, you will have to surrender your vehicle and find alternative transport until you can provide the relevant paperwork that confirms the legal use of this vehicle. You have 14 days to provide this, after which your vehicle will be either auctioned or crushed. Good day."

I'd be over the moon I can tell you.

Imagine the scenario
Police Officer "I'm sorry sir, you are not shown as the registered keeper of this vehicle!"

Me, "That's quite correct officer, it is a courtesy car loaned to me by Mercedes-Benz South-West whilst my vehicle is having some corrosion work carried out"

Officer, "Have you any means of identification?"

Me, "Yes, here's my driving licence"

By this time Mercedes-Benz South-West MIGHT have been contacted and my story confirmed\denied???

We can all make scenario's to suit our arguments, but lets be realistic. In Torbay all council CCTV camera's can be switched into Vehicle Recognition Mode (first local authority to have it outside London) Unfortunately it is seldom used simply because of lack of Police manpower! This paper cutting highlights the manpower needed to use it on a busy road.

We desperately need to have the Police as our friends, we need to have a friendly rapport otherwise we land up with Rose Chaps attitude. The idiot remark WAS NOT aimed directly at Rose Chap and I apologise it's use, but please let's try to accept the Police are on our side even if they might be 4ft midgets

Regards
John the idiot

 

[Swiss Toni]

I am intrigued how on earth they could have established that your car had been cloned whilst doing a roadside stop... unless your car was the clone.
Bring back the bobby I say.

There are a few ways they could confirm that your car was the "True" car and the other vehicle was the "Clone" - and so long as that isn't clear to everyone exactly what they are, the less chance the cloner has of getting away with it...

(Bring back the bobby I say too ) (Unless its Timmy )

It's a slippery slope when the police can act as courts and seize people's property...

The powers of the Police to seize property they believe to be the result of criminal activity are nothing new - they allow the investigation to take place. It's why they can stop a car (for example), not be happy with the account the driver gives, arrest them, seize the car, then wake you as you sleep soundly in your bed to ask "Did you know your car had been stolen?"

The reason the Police don't stop everyone coming out of a shopping centre, or go into everyones home is that they have to work within the law...!

And was everyone stopped? Unlikely - the ANPR database will indicate which vehicles need to be checked more closely. And if you explain why the database is likely to be wrong, then the Cops should investigate and make a decision as to whether they should seize your car ("Compooter sez Nooo" doesn't wash - it is the Cop who does the investigation by the roadside and then makes the decision - I note a thread here where the Cops got it wrong ).

If you want them to lock up the bad guys, you need to understand that this means making best use of the technology, a trained investigator (the Cop) and some cooperation from the law-abiding majority.

I suggest that fat Policemen riding cycles and saying "Evening all" provide a degree of reassurance to a section of the community, but catching crack-dealing lowlife might need a different approach

 

[BonzoDog]

Iraq for example.

Why UK drivers allow ourselves to be treated like this is beyond me.

Er last time I checked Iraq was not in Europe.

 

[Swiss Toni]

All these cameras and roadside checks point to slack policing on the cheap...

Rather than proper police we'll just end up with a "computer says no" system which relies on people to prove their innocence rather than the other way around.

The ANPR database will indicate a vehicle is used by a known burglar - when they stop it and find your telly on the back seat, they stand a good chance of getting locked up....

As for "Policing on the cheap" - you want Policing on the expensive???!!!

Maybe you need to spend some time with Timmy?

 

[nick mercedes]

Er last time I checked Iraq was not in Europe.

You know what I mean though?

 

[Shude]

We can all make scenario's to suit our arguments

What frustrates me about this is the "we don't know who the criminals are so we're going to stop everyone and ask them to prove they're innocent" attitude.

It's not good police work and it's not exactly efficient use of anyone's time.

I watched a show about traffic cops (most likely "Traffic Cops" ) and one of the afforementioned traffic cops said that he only had to look out for people driving without seatbelts, 99% of them have something dodgy about them. He proved this by waiting for the next car with a driver not wearing a seatbelt, who was immediately pulled over. After some sob-story or other the occupants were made to exit the vehicle and walk while a transporter was called to remove the vehicle: no insurance, MOT, tax etc!

Now that almost seems like police work to me!

 

[BTB 500]

All these cameras and roadside checks point to slack policing on the cheap...

I don't agree. They are finally able to start enforcing some laws e.g. road tax, MOT, insurance, etc. in an effective way - how is that a bad thing? The woman who lived opposite me deliberately drove without tax for years and years. She told me quite openly that the chance of getting caught was tiny, and if she did the fine would be less than she'd have had to pay in road tax. Did she have insurance and MOT? No idea, but not having to produce the documents would surely make it tempting not to bother.

 

[Swiss Toni]

You know what I mean though?

I suspect we still have the best Cops in the world, and (don't know if you travel abroad much?) but most people in the rest of the world just can't understand how British Police can do their job without being in possession of a gun?

 

[nick mercedes]

The ANPR database will indicate a vehicle is used by a known burglar

That's a little bit suss as well, surely we as a society should not assume that all criminals are repeat criminals, and harass them on the off chance that they're at it again?

 

[Swiss Toni]

What frustrates me about this is the "we don't know who the criminals are so we're going to stop everyone and ask them to prove they're innocent" attitude.

But they don't stop everyone - they target the cars they stop and spend time with based on the information that they have access to (and they don't have to tell the driver why they are spending more time with them than the next chap - its all part of the investigation!!

(Lets not mix up TV shows - even edited reality type ones - with what happens in real life )

 

[Swiss Toni]

That's a little bit suss as well, surely we as a society should not assume that all criminals are repeat criminals, and harass them on the off chance that they're at it again?

You are 100% right.

That is why the Cop has to investigate.

 

[Swiss Toni]

That's a little bit suss as well, surely we as a society should not assume that all criminals are repeat criminals, and harass them on the off chance that they're at it again?

Also - not simply those with previous convictions, but where there is intelligence that they are currently active...

You haven't seen that on TV? No? It's not sexy, but it is effective.