Lorrys overtaking each other on Dual Carriageways

[KeithJG]

This is why i mentioned keep lorries on the railway keep all the mess and pooh in one place....they say the bridges are too low but they come through the tunnel ok, just excuses excuses.

The A20 from the end of the M20 through the road tunnel and over the hill and down to Dover was exactly the same with bottles etc. on the verges but now they have had a cleanup and the reason why was not for the sake of cleaning it is for the sake of erecting i don`t know how many signs saying "average speed limit" which is all for the benefit of Operation Stack.......there are loads of electrical generators with wires under the road to illuminate all these signs for speed limits and queuing traffic.....yes, you have guessed it probably Manston won`t get used as a lorry park and neither will they build a lorry park at Stanford at junction 11 of the M20 it has all been quashed so back to lemonade bottles with wee and pooh on the hard shoulder and in the bushes from this Summer onwards!....you never see portable loo`s so where does it all go!!

I have to know the times of the Ferries docking as otherwise i get to follow a boat load of them up the A20 our lads are better but the European drivers are really arrogant and dangerous driver`s.

One of my friends had to sell his house through a compulsory order he had been in for 25yrs at Stanford and he didn`t want to move but had to, now he lives in Hythe and is outraged that they are NOT building the lorry park.

This is the reason i will not buy newspapers anymore or hardly ever listen to the News......the Government always "talk" a good job but never actually do anything they just talk to keep us quiet and calm and are seen to care and i am sick of it all.
I have always voted Tory all my life but now they will have to tread careful as i don`t think they will be in charge for much longer Labour will replace them .....but of course i won`t vote again in my lifetime.

.........................................................

While we are having a bash at Cruise Control........i go to France quite a lot and down the autoroutes the French motors are all on "cruise" they must be because their speed never alters and they drive so close to one another so when coming up to an exit you can easily overshoot as you can`t get across between them to exit.

Seems strange but once drivers are on"cruise" they never want to alter the speed and sometimes things look quite dodgy before they take avoiding action.

 

[BTB 500]

I want an app on my car that shows me where I can drive up to, to retain my average.... That would be very handy.

TomToms show your current average speed (as well as present speed) when you're in an average speed limit zone.

 

[Lennox]

TomToms show your current average speed (as well as present speed) when you're in an average speed limit zone.

I use Wase and the cars system..... Pity.

Sent from my Huawei note 8 using my fingers

 

[mat8n]

I have a Hgv licence and have driven stgo class heavy haulage for a short time.
I also drive very large mobile Cranes, the largest you can get.

Believe me, when you are driving 5-600 miles in that day limited to either 56mph in the case of a truck or around 40mph in a crane, you do not sit behind another vehicle going 1-2mph slower, neither do you slow down and loose momentum as has been said, in the crane it takes about 3 miles to get up to full speed!

So that 10-15 minutes might be a nightmare for you(and me if I'm in my car) but the flip side is it will save the driver maybe half an hour out of his driving time, if he does this 3-4 times a day he's saved about 2 hours driving /distance.

It's a big thing being on tachograph or having 2 days to get somewhere in a crane.

 

[CLSMark]

I have a Hgv licence and have driven stgo class heavy haulage for a short time.
I also drive very large mobile Cranes, the largest you can get.

Believe me, when you are driving 5-600 miles in that day limited to either 56mph in the case of a truck or around 40mph in a crane, you do not sit behind another vehicle going 1-2mph slower, neither do you slow down and loose momentum as has been said, in the crane it takes about 3 miles to get up to full speed!

So that 10-15 minutes might be a nightmare for you(and me if I'm in my car) but the flip side is it will save the driver maybe half an hour out of his driving time, if he does this 3-4 times a day he's saved about 2 hours driving /distance.

It's a big thing being on tachograph or having 2 days to get somewhere in a crane.

Well said, but will fall on deaf ears


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[geraldrobins]

Regarding more freight on the railways do we have sufficient infrastructure to start with. Then there will still be considerable traffic taking goods to and from the railway stations to their destination and from the point of supply. Goods will need more handling in multiple loadings and off loadings. Road haulage is far more flexible. It may work with some goods which it already does as in coal to power stations.
We all need goods and services transported!!

 

[KeithJG]

Well said, but will fall on deaf ears


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You are barking up the wrong tailpipe........

I understand lorry drivers my Father was one for years and years , old school lorry and bus driver but that is not what the thread is about it is overtaking and the lorry driver although knows he doesn`t have enough power will still overtake another lorry at 1mph+ and on hills which is really not safe as you are alongside another vehicle for miles!.....it is first come first at the post attitude?....my lorry is better than yours.

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Regarding Freight on railways the cab goes with the trailer not unhitched.

In the 70`s the railway was full of freight until the rail strikes and nobody would put up with it and so most went by lorry and roads......now it is still on the roads as they did not go back to the railway. If it did railways would make a profit and if the Government were fair it would benefit all including passenger traffic with the fares?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I have a Hgv licence and have driven stgo class heavy haulage for a short time.
I also drive very large mobile Cranes, the largest you can get.

Believe me, when you are driving 5-600 miles in that day limited to either 56mph in the case of a truck or around 40mph in a crane, you do not sit behind another vehicle going 1-2mph slower, neither do you slow down and loose momentum as has been said, in the crane it takes about 3 miles to get up to full speed!

So that 10-15 minutes might be a nightmare for you(and me if I'm in my car) but the flip side is it will save the driver maybe half an hour out of his driving time, if he does this 3-4 times a day he's saved about 2 hours driving /distance.

It's a big thing being on tachograph or having 2 days to get somewhere in a crane.

Not being an HGV driver and only having driven vehicles under Class C, you’ll have to excuse my ignorance here. You talk about wanting to overtake a vehicle that’s going 1-2mph slower than you; I can fully understand that. But when a vehicle doing 1-2mph more than you pulls out to overtake, why can’t you ease off the throttle/cruise to slow by a couple of mph and allow the other vehicle to pass twice as fast and pull back into lane 1 a lot sooner? Will it take an eternity to get back up to the previous speed, especially when taking advantage of the drag from the passing vehicle? Or is this a bit of consideration for other road users that would risk giving HGV drivers a good name?

 

[Quackers]

HGV drivers can and do slow down when being overtaken. It happens often, but not necessarily all the time.
It's dependent on your load and its weight. A heavily laden truck will be faster than a lightly loaded or unloaded truck when going downhill and obviously much slower when going uphill, when the overtaking HGV can pass.
If drivers let HGV's out more easily in the few seconds they have available to effect the overtake that they need to perform in the next quarter mile they wouldn't stay out in the second lane so long in the first place.
But they don't.

Anyway, most of you seem to think that the motorways and dual carriageways were built for you to travel up and down in your cars on your way to the seaside.
They weren't.
They were built for commerce to use so that the country can make money.
Nothing to do with car driver's convenience - whatever you may think.

 

[Wolfie1]

But if it's an average zone you can zip up to 60 mph get past and then slow down to 49 for a while. You'll still maintain your average speed or pretty close to it.

Yea but its up to each individual police force to set their limits, i have called up the local police and asked this very question and the answer i got was “I cant tell you that”

 

[CLSMark]

HGV drivers can and do slow down when being overtaken. It happens often, but not necessarily all the time.
It's dependent on your load and its weight. A heavily laden truck will be faster than a lightly loaded or unloaded truck when going downhill and obviously much slower when going uphill, when the overtaking HGV can pass.
If drivers let HGV's out more easily in the few seconds they have available to effect the overtake that they need to perform in the next quarter mile they wouldn't stay out in the second lane so long in the first place.
But they don't.

Anyway, most of you seem to think that the motorways and dual carriageways were built for you to travel up and down in your cars on your way to the seaside.
They weren't.
They were built for commerce to use so that the country can make money.
Nothing to do with car driver's convenience - whatever you may think.

Well said that man


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[st13phil]

If drivers let HGV's out more easily in the few seconds they have available to effect the overtake that they need to perform in the next quarter mile they wouldn't stay out in the second lane so long in the first place.

I quite happily let HGV's out to overtake. Most times the overtake is made in a reasonable time, the HGV pulls back into the left lane and all is well. Then there's the one time in ten that the elephant racing p!ss-take happens and everyone is reduced to travelling at 55.9mph for the next 10-15 minutes. Guess how many drivers in the ensuing queue (including me) are then minded to let the next HGV out to make an overtake?

As I said in an earlier post, keep doing this and HGV drivers will be rewarded with more and more overtaking restrictions that confine them to travelling in the inside lane at the speed of the slowest.

And the roads are for all users, not just HGV's, any more than they are there for the exclusive benefit of the sales rep's glued to the outside lane in their 3-er's.

 

[Quackers]

I can't believe I've not had any "likes" yet for my post

Yes, of course I accept what you say and that the one or two bad ones can be really bad.
I assure you that contrary to what many here believe the overtaking HGV driver is not enjoying being stuck out there.
The one on the inside lane should if possible (with regard to his weight etc) slow down a touch and the problem would resolve itself quickly. Sadly some don't and sometimes it's sheer bloody mindedness (many HGV drivers hate the big HGV companies (like Stobarts) and will do anything to mess them up.

I think you are wrong with your other point that legislation will come to bear to make all HGV's travel at the rate of the slowest for a couple of reasons.
Firstly it's just unworkable when drivers have fixed maximum work/driving hours.
Secondly although there are many more cars than HGV's on our motorways and dual carriageways it remains that they were actually built for commercial reasons. It's just more cost efficient to the country to have them than not.

With regard to more goods being transported by rail (as mentioned by others) the simple fact is that it is!
If you live anywhere near a major rail line you can't help but see train after train going past and its whole load is containers.
The problem arises once it gets to the container port. It still has to get to factories and shops by road.

Basically we have to find a way to live with each other. However painful that can be at times.

 

[st13phil]

The one on the inside lane should if possible (with regard to his weight etc) slow down a touch and the problem would resolve itself quickly.

Exactly as I suggested in an earlier post in this thread. A little cooperation by the driver being overtaken and the problem disappears.

Sadly some don't and sometimes it's sheer bloody mindedness (many HGV drivers hate the big HGV companies (like Stobarts) and will do anything to mess them up.

Meanwhile every other road user gets inconvenienced as a result of a petty feud.

I have a great deal of sympathy with anyone who has to drive for a living in the UK. The combination of timed delivery slots, ambitious schedules and unpredictable journey times is a recipe for massive stress, frustration, and anger. Bloody minded actions of the type we've been discussing benefit no-one, and legislation really is a distinct possibility: new restrictions on HGV overtaking were introduced on the M11 just last year.

 

[rockits]

I'm on my move not a laptop or desktop with no access to pen or paper but it is a mathematical calculation is it not for how long it would take a lorry to pass another lorry while going 1mph faster if you had one at 59mph & one at 60mph.

The slower one would be doing 1mph less so if you divided the 60mph guys 1 mile or approx 1600m by 60 then divide by 60 again he would moving faster by about 0.5m per sec. So a pass of a say a 20m lorry would take about 40 secs plus a smidge either side of the manoeuvre start & finish.

Have I got that about right? So why does it take several minutes or longer for these passes to take place even at 1mph difference?

 

[Quackers]

st13phil, I don't really agree that other road users are being inconvenienced. They just can't get where they're going as quickly as they would like to. That's not the same thing to me.
And yes, you're right. With the constraints put on HGV drivers nowadays and the conditions under which they work it can be very stressful. Particularly when you appreciate that they can be driving for 9 hours in a day (up to 10 occasionally) and those hours spread across a 15 hour working day.
Yes, the M11 has imposed restrictions on HGV overtaking, mainly due to the fact that it's got some big hills. Not all roads have those.

 

[Quackers]

I'm on my move not a laptop or desktop with no access to pen or paper but it is a mathematical calculation is it not for how long it would take a lorry to pass another lorry while going 1mph faster if you had one at 59mph & one at 60mph.

The slower one would be doing 1mph less so if you divided the 60mph guys 1 mile or approx 1600m by 60 then divide by 60 again he would moving faster by about 0.5m per sec. So a pass of a say a 20m lorry would take about 40 secs plus a smidge either side of the manoeuvre start & finish.

Have I got that about right? So why does it take several minutes or longer for these passes to take place even at 1mph difference?

Inclines, both up and down have an impact on the time taken to pass plus the laden weight of both trucks. Also the power produced by each truck's engine may be different.

 

[st13phil]

I did the calc's myself earlier so as to better understand how long it really takes. If you take the following distance prior to the overtake and after the overtake into account, it can easily take 4+ minutes to complete with the faster vehicle travelling at 56mph and the overtaken vehicle travelling 1mph slower.

However, that's not the whole story, because the two vehicles may have a speed differential at the start of the overtake that evaporates part way through the manoeuvre. The two vehicles then travel side by side until such time as the road gradient (or whatever) gives one of them a speed advantage over the other. Due to bloody-minded ignorance, the driver of the vehicle being overtaken refuses to back off a fraction so as the overtake can complete, and the road block continues.

 

[st13phil]

st13phil, I don't really agree that other road users are being inconvenienced. They just can't get where they're going as quickly as they would like to. That's not the same thing to me.

But just like the HGV driver, they often have appointments to keep, so it's more than just someone's leisure time that's being eaten up.

I think we fundamentally agree with each other, so let's leave it at that

 

[Quackers]

But just like the HGV driver, they often have appointments to keep, so it's more than just someone's leisure time that's being eaten up.

I think we fundamentally agree with each other, so let's leave it at that

I can live with that