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Mercedes tyre 'skipping' - official statement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by JattAmg, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. JattAmg

    JattAmg Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    http://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/mercedes-tyre-skipping--official-statement/35651


    Mercedes-Benz UK statement issued 24/1/17 and reproduced verbatim:
    We're sorry to hear that a small number of customers have experienced an issue with certain models, generally at cold ambient temperatures while manoeuvring at low speed with steering lock applied. The experience is of the front tyres apparently 'skipping'. This is a comfort issue, and does not affect the safety or performance of the vehicle.

    This characteristic comes from flexibility within the tyre sidewall, the grip between the front tyres and the type of road surface being driven over. It is something which can be felt only at very low speeds, and when a certain percentage of wheel lock is engaged for turning. This is demonstratively more evident in colder temperatures due to the changes in the tyre rubber elasticity.

    Winter tyres and all-season tyres on 18- or 19-inch wheels improve this characteristic and we would always recommend their use in temperatures which fall below approximately +7 degrees Celsius. The use of 18-inch wheels with summer tyres also improves the issue.

    We do, however, appreciate that is not always possible or practical for customers to fit alternative tyres or wheels, and our technical experts in the UK are investigating alternative ways to help minimise this characteristic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
    4 people like this.
  2. T5R+

    T5R+ Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Not unique to MB - my Volvos did this, extremely evident on summer tyres in cold/freezing conditions.

    It is generally accepted that much below 5-7degrees centigrade and summer tyre elasticity changes due to formulation.
     
  3. ShaneyB

    ShaneyB Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Yep as per other threads, had it all of my Quattro Audi's so it doesn't really bother me.
     
  4. BlackC55

    BlackC55 Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    Very common on all Mercedes cars from the 90's until now.
     
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  5. gr1nch

    gr1nch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    This skipping is happening with my Saab in exactly the way described and is happened only this winter in 5 years of ownership. This juddering happens right after I've started the car, doing a full lock right on uneven cobbles. As it doesn't happen when the engine has warmed up and certainly not when the weather is warmer, I was thinking it's the cold affecting the fluid in the steering or ABS. Although it's not a Merc, maybe it's the software as the OP is suggesting.
     
  6. MercedesDriver

    MercedesDriver Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    All 4matics or you mean in general? I've never experienced anything similar as described on any of mine MBs from 90s and 2000s
     
  7. wemorgan

    wemorgan Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    IMHO this is MB putting on a brave face.

    Marketing Dept have clearly had their hand in the statement after the engineers.
    A comfort issue = NVH or ride and handling. A mechanical noise on full lock in cold climates will almost certainly become a new load case for MB engineers in the future.
    This is a performance issue since NVH is performance.
    Owners have every reason to be dissatisfied.
     
  8. jaymanek

    jaymanek Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    My c43 has always done this..
     
  9. rf065

    rf065 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    My CLK has always done it too.

    Russ
     
  10. KillerHERTZ

    KillerHERTZ Administrator Staff Member

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    My W202, W209 and W219, aswell as my mates 5 Series. All cars with large wheels do, not sure why it's come to light as a new thing now?
     
  11. Bobby Dazzler

    Bobby Dazzler Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    If you turn the wheels to full lock, pop on the hand brake and select park, and then look at the angle of the wheel and it's contact with the road surface, you can see why there will be some degree of skip. Do it on a car with 21 inch wheels and therefore low profile tyres, especially a Mercedes, and you can really see why it might skip.

    Taller sidewalls, and rubber which is more flexible, enable more of the lateral loads to be absorbed by the tyre, reducing the likelihood that it will skip. I've not yet heard of anyone trying smaller wheels with winter tyres yet, so it's difficult to anticipate how much of a difference they might make.
     
  12. Dave.tam

    Dave.tam Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I've never had this issue, and I've owned a good few cars. It does it really badly on our A250.

    I've had loads of cars with 18-19" wheels and low profile tyres, but never before had this issue.

    It surprises me that so many have experienced this before tbh.
     
  13. dejongj

    dejongj Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    It is interesting to see how people keep on coming out that it is normal and their vehicles do it as well. I mean even Mercedes in that statement acknowledges that only some models and a small group of owners are affected. And that their engineers are working to resolve it.

    So which is it? Normal or not?
     
  14. DrFeelgood

    DrFeelgood Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Possibly some new owners are more sensitive to the issue due to the skipping rubbing off some of the warm feeling a shiny new car brings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  15. CaptainChaos

    CaptainChaos Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Probably not unusual for cars on massive wheels with low profile run flat tyres which have immensely stiff sidewalls. My old Range Rover is probably around the same size as a GLC yet it's designed for 205/80/16 tyres. Think of how much compliance there is in those sidewalls!

    Possibly it's also a result of the conversion to right hand drive compromising the ideal steering setup. Look up the Ackerman steering principle.
     
  16. GLK

    GLK Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Never had it on the GLK350 4Matic AMG Line on 20" wheels, but then again it was a LHD car in Florida ...

    None of the couple of W168s (RHD) did that either, whether in Caribbean or here in the UK.

    When I bought my current A200 C169 (Avantgarde Sports Coupe), it had a factory-specified 18" 215/40 Contis CS2, went through the winter 2015-2016 without skipping once.

    I replaced the tyres with wider 225/40 18 Goodyear EGP in April 2016, and this winter it started skipping.

    So there you go: same car, same suspension; same alloys, but slightly wider tyres and you get the bang-bang-bang on full lock reverse on a cold morning.

    I wouldn't change the tyres back though - much quieter and smoother ride, and considerably more planted feel.
     
  17. timskemp

    timskemp Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Both my Fiats do this! But neither of the Mercedes.
     
  18. GK10

    GK10 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I've definitely noticed this on my 12 plate C Class coupe this winter (first winter with it). Didn't seem to do it on my W203 but it's kind of annoying when turning out of certain roads. Thought it could have been the make of the tyres but re-assuring to know it's a common issue now.
     
  19. dejongj

    dejongj Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    A website has launched to aid those owners affected to group together and collate securely information.

    https://www.mercedescrabbing.org

    It would be good when those affected register to aid communication across the various online communities.
     
  20. JohnEBoy

    JohnEBoy Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    I take it the following video sums up the issue?

    [YOUTUBE]rO5rqpYPNjo[/YOUTUBE]
     
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