More confusion reigns on the roads...

[Deleted member 37751]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all this dithering; one minute there's talk of a higher 80mph limit, now this...
BBC News - 60mph speed limit proposal for stretch of M1 motorway

 

[davidjpowell]

Rush hour it's not too bad - your lucky to hit 70, but otherwise this is going to be pretty ****.

Distinctly less than impressed as it's relatively hard to miss this heading to the Midlands or the South West.

 

[Dryce]

It's part of a plot to make HS2 more attractive.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Or just part of the green enviro car haters ideology?

Has anyone heard of UN Agenda 21?

It's the UN's vision for governing all of our lives during the 21st century, hence the 21. Sustainable development is its other label, which you almost certainly will have heard of- same thing.

It's not pleasant reading.

 

[baxlin]

why don't they make it REALLY simple - restrict the speed of high-emission cars, but allow low emission vehicles a higher speed limit.......

On a more sensible note, actually a bit of a rant, it's always annoyed me that the London Congestion charge is so-named. It's NOT a congestion charge, otherwise a Prius, which takes up as much road space as any other car, would not be exempt.

Surely it's a Pollution Charge! But then that would be telling the truth

Rant over

 

[PenelopePitstop]

What so special about this particular part of M1?

"Tougher European Union guidelines on air quality have come into force and the agency argued that a lower limit would be needed to ensure these were met on the section from junctions 28 and 35a, which goes past Mansfield, Chesterfield and Sheffield."

I would assume that similar pollution is produced on other parts of M1 and other motorways, like M25. I thought it would be article about congestion or a lot of accidents but air quality on motorway? Isn't it obvious that cars are traveling on motorway and generating air pollution?

 

[davidjpowell]

They are moving the source of the pollution closer to the neighbour houses with live hard shoulder running, but doing it on the cheap is what I've read.

 

[moonloops]

I'll be going through that section in a lower gear at 5000 RPM then..

 

[baxlin]

I'll be going through that section in a lower gear at 5000 RPM then..

Good idea, if a diesel, burn a bit of crud from the DPF............

 

[flango]

I'm struggling with this, the section of M1 they are talking about is currently under a 50 mph temp speed limit and will be so for the next 2 years whilst they convert to a managed motorway just as they have done on the M62 both my mate and BIL are working on this project which will eventually run from j28 to j42 by 2018 so something does not make sense here, media BS again

 

[isleaiw]

What so special about this particular part of M1?

It is near where I live and they are thinking of my health?

Or I have gone 5 years without a speeding fine and they are getting desperate about ways to relieve me of my money??

Ian

 

[stevieb15]

I'm struggling with this, the section of M1 they are talking about is currently under a 50 mph temp speed limit and will be so for the next 2 years whilst they convert to a managed motorway just as they have done on the M62 both my mate and BIL are working on this project which will eventually run from j28 to j42 by 2018 so something does not make sense here, media BS again

Highways Agency have been quoted on the story so it must have some basis in fact, apparently a section of the M3 amongst others is also being assessed to see if something similar is required.

 

[PenelopePitstop]

If there's more great ideas like this I will have to stay in Germany permanently ...

 

[balge]

M1 Junctions 28-31 - Road Projects - Highways Agency

"We want to deliver the much needed extra capacity and increased traffic flow that these schemes will provide without creating a significant adverse impact on local air quality. As such we are proposing to put in place a maximum speed limit of 60mph between junctions 28 and 35a. This speed limit would be in place between 7am and 7pm for seven days a week and would help manage traffic and reduce congestion and air pollutants locally."

So - they're converting the hard shoulder into a fourth lane to increase capacity (increases pollution), and reducing the speed limit to reduce pollution (increases congestion)...
Right, that seems quite straightforward?

Or, maybe the lack of a hard shoulder makes it more dangerous, so they're cutting the speed to make it safer?

 

[BTB 500]

Or, maybe the lack of a hard shoulder makes it more dangerous, so they're cutting the speed to make it safer?

On that subject ... I've never figured out why they put a permanent 50 mph speed limit on the M3 where it meets the M25

 

[Satch]

M1 Junctions 28-31 - Road Projects - Highways Agency

"We want to deliver the much needed extra capacity and increased traffic flow that these schemes will provide without creating a significant adverse impact on local air quality. As such we are proposing to put in place a maximum speed limit of 60mph between junctions 28 and 35a. This speed limit would be in place between 7am and 7pm for seven days a week and would help manage traffic and reduce congestion and air pollutants locally."

So - they're converting the hard shoulder into a fourth lane to increase capacity (increases pollution), and reducing the speed limit to reduce pollution (increases congestion)...
Right, that seems quite straightforward?

Or, maybe the lack of a hard shoulder makes it more dangerous, so they're cutting the speed to make it safer?

Nothing to do with safety: what it comes down to is that the managed motorway schemes, by virtue of causing higher projected traffic volumes and at busy times more slow down/speed up effects (although nobody wants to say that) increase the projected pollution levels.

So to make the models work (and they are just models) to give the "right" answer, the easiest way to fudge it is to reduce the maximum speed limit used in the Managed Motorway model.

Simple and depressing as that

 

[PenelopePitstop]

On that subject ... I've never figured out why they put a permanent 50 mph speed limit on the M3 where it meets the M25

This I can understand and it's speed limit on a short distance. A lot of cars joining M3 and it was probably accident hotspot. As in the other direction, a lot of accidents where the cars are queuing for M25.

 

[Teflonso]

As Satch rightly points out, this is about keeping traffic flowing, not slowing it down.

The section concerned includes the junction with the M18, the frequently backed up Sheffield Parkway sliproad, plus the exit at J34 for Meadowhall - the place where everyone goes when it rains and throughout every school holidays. Oh, and the Tinsley Viaduct, which spans both sides of J34 for just over a mile is limited to two lanes because of it's original weak (subsequently reinforced on the cheap) box girder construction. I've seldom been stuck with the 50mph limit while they were doing the concrete central barriers, but once people get up to 70 there's plenty of brake light stop/start, especially the outside lane numpties.

There's one further complication. I worked in the local heavy industry my entire career and getting planning permission for anything that would put up traffic volumes was absolute murder. J34 is the lowest point in the entire area, so in stable air conditions motor fumes settle. The locals at Tinsley (east side of J34) were constantly banging on about air quality, which even 15 years ago was worse (at times) than the recommended European maxima. The only time I remember us having things easy with the Highways Agency was when we let contractors have access to widen the motorway to 4 lanes.

There's similar air quality issues up toward Barnsley. Much of London has air just as bad, but I guess the locals there would be overjoyed to be able to do 60 mph.

For my money, I'm more than happy with 60 mph for my local M1 journeys, but the plan to convert the hard shoulder to a permanent lane is absolute madness. Someone will get killed, but the cost benefit analysis will say it's a price worth paying.


.

 

[John]

On a more sensible note, actually a bit of a rant, it's always annoyed me that the London Congestion charge is so-named. It's NOT a congestion charge, otherwise a Prius, which takes up as much road space as any other car, would not be exempt.

Surely it's a Pollution Charge! But then that would be telling the truth

Rant over

Unless they mean lung congestion?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

If they're reducing the speed to 60mph, does this mean that everyone will start doing 80 instead of 90mph now?