1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Dear Guest, Official Club stickers are now available, if you have not already ordered some go grab them now! To order click this Link ----> CLICK ME Go get them whilst stocks last! To dismiss this notice click the cross to the right of this message.

Oil Specs: MB229.1 & MB229.3

Discussion in 'Engine' started by Satch, Aug 16, 2004.

  1. Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    Here is a pretty good explaination of the difference.


    "MB229.1 is intended to cover minimum specifications for passenger cars with petrol or diesel engines prior to the introduction of 2002 model year vehicles from Mercedes.

    Although it calls for high detergency, MB229.1 is not a particularly onerous specification for modern lubricants and can in fact be achieved even with a plain mineral oil of say, 15W40 viscosity grade if the right additive pack is selected. It equates to ACEA grades A2/B2 and to some of the requirements of ACEA grades A3/B3 but despite its A3/B3 rating it is NOT intended for use over extended drain intervals. This means the oil must be changed every 6,000 miles if it only complies with MB229.1.

    The latest generation of engines from Mercedes are higher performance BUT need to give improved economy and longer drain intervals dictated by the need to reduce service time and cost.

    Hence MB229.3 was introduced to ensure that the engine lubricants can cope with these new demands.

    The need for drain intervals of 12,000 miles or more in higher performance engines can give rise to problems with plain mineral oils since the lighter base stocks can evaporate off over this time, thickening the oil, concentrating contaminants and increasing oil consumption (topping up is required to replace the evaporated stocks). Additionally, the demand for better economy means that the oils viscosity MUST be relatively low and plain mineral oils are not very good at preventing wear when they are low in viscosity.

    This incompatibility with plain mineral oils and MB229.3 means that MB229.3 oils are generally Fully Synthetic. Equally they will have low viscosities (typically 5W40 or 0W40 but they can be as low as 0W30!) and must meet the full requirements of ACEA grade A3/B3
    "
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. adam1

    adam1 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    291
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Location:
    Yorks
    Car:
    E220CDI avantgarde-tansanite blue with sand-cream leather .Honda Civic, Honda Stream SESport( 160bhp
    So what your basically are saying is use 5W oils like Mobil1...what about mobil S or castrol magnatec
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    What I take from that memo is if you have a 229.1 spec oil it needs changing every 6000 miles, it will probably not be full synthetic and will tend to have a higher viscosity

    229.3 oils will tend to be synthetic they have to be tougher to survive the extended drain intervals and can (but do not have to) have a lower viscosity because they are "better" lubricants.

    This is precisely what caught out MB USA and cost them a packet: some of the MB suggested US "premium" oils simply could not hack it over an extended drain interval of up to 20,000 or 40,000km depending on engine.

    They were actually below the MB229.3 spec despite having the same brand name and designation as oils in Europe which did comply with 229.3. A considerable number of MB's suffered engine damage as a result, lawsuits flew and MB USA had to cough because they had not researched the oils properly.

    The attached is really useful but should be treated with caution: oil specs. do differ between countries. Note the references to "European" and country oil specs.

    http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

    So my choice would be to bung in a quality 229.3 full synthetic & forget it until the car tells me something, but there is nothing wrong with the more traditional oils as long as they meet the required spec for your car and you can be ****d to change it every 6000 miles.

    Just to confuse matters there is now the MB 229.31 spec (low ash) required for diesels with particulate filters.

    Also MB 229.5 which tend to be thinner and have a minimum of 30,000km drain interval.

    The SLR-McLaren requires Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-50 so if you are feeling aspirational go for that. :D
     
  4. Robbo

    Robbo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    850
    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Car:
    C320 (W203) & A170 (W169)
    Great post Satch.

    I insist on using fully synthetic in mine, despite the dealers wanting to use semi-synth magnatec. So I provide my own oil for the service.
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    I do not understand why if you car requires MB229.3. Last thing I could find on it was:

    Castrol Magnatec 10w40 Synthetically engineered with "Unique Molecular Attraction" for use in modern engines
    API SL/CF, ACEA A3/B3
    MB229.1, VW 505.00 Approved

    I do not see MB229.3 there, but maybe the spec. has changed. Also was told by a highly respected source (well, my mate who has one so just hearsay really) that Porsche dealers are said to have been instructed not to use certain oils that thin at higher temperatures to the extent that during "vigerous" cornering, unless you have a dry sump a la track cars, the oil warning light can sometimes come on as the oil flys around in the sump.

    If nothing else that will cause any Porsche owner to whimper in terror of major wallet damage..
     
  6. Robbo

    Robbo Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    850
    Joined:
    May 4, 2003
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Car:
    C320 (W203) & A170 (W169)
    In the drivers handbook it says I need MB229.1 oil, but I dont buy their line that its OK to do over 10K between services using mineral oil. Better to be safe than sorry is my view.
     
  7. steptoe

    steptoe Member

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Porsche's have dry sumps, the oils in its own tank ?.
     
  8. adam1

    adam1 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    291
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Location:
    Yorks
    Car:
    E220CDI avantgarde-tansanite blue with sand-cream leather .Honda Civic, Honda Stream SESport( 160bhp
    Checked with the dealer who serviced my car last Sept. they used mobil 1 0w40 which is 229.3. The oil costs about 34.99 at Halfords but someone tells me that Costco are selling it for 26 quid. anyone know of a cheaper source...its a premium brand with a hefty price.

    I spoke to the Honda dealer who serviced my civic they used castrol magnatec. would it be safe to use Mobil 1 to top both cars(w211) and civic.

    I'll be buying 4L and its seems a waste to reserve it for Mbz which isn't asking for any oil in the 5000 miles i've driven while the Civic will need oil soon...as i've just bought it and it was serviced last dec03.
     
  9. GordonTarling

    GordonTarling Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,487
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Location:
    Uxbridge
    Car:
    2005 E320 CDI Avantgarde Estate
    Unless you can find somewhere with a special offer, you'll probably find that Costco is the cheapest for Mobil 1 - just check the the price that you see does include the VAT. Local Hellfrauds had an offer last week - 5 litres (4 + 1) for the price of 4 litres - 40 pounds though.
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    You need to be a little careful that you are comparing like for like because there are a number of oils sold under the "Mobil 1" banner thoughout the world.

    This is the oil of choice for those with turbo diesels

    http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobil1TurboDiesel_0W40.asp
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    Pressed the button too soo. Was going to add that apart from those with diesel engines fitted with a particulate filter (think that is just the 2.2 TD at the moment, but not sure) where an oil to MB 229.31 is needed which I think is Mobil SHC Formula LA 5W-30: certainly looks like an MB specific product!

    http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/EUXXENPVLMOMobilSHCFormulaLA_5W-30.asp
     
  12. adam1

    adam1 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    291
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2003
    Location:
    Yorks
    Car:
    E220CDI avantgarde-tansanite blue with sand-cream leather .Honda Civic, Honda Stream SESport( 160bhp
    The dealer uses the protection formula OW40 in the diesels as well as petrols which is 229.3 although a turbodiesl is available.

    I suppose you could use the either in other petrol cars as well as its an oil.

    The costco needs membership which is 30 quid, forget that.
    The only price I've got is 34.99 for 4L. or 40 quid for 5L. anyone found any cheaper elsewhere...hope its not a monopoly on price

    Update: found 0W40 MB229.3 and 229.5 spec for £27.99 at a local shop a £7.00 quid saving on Halfords price. i asked them to order more since we need 5L for a service usually...clever marketing why have 4L containers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2004
  13. lordofthenazgul

    lordofthenazgul Active Member

    Messages:
    62
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Location:
    NW England
    Car:
    C240 ESPRIT, 1998
    OK, now I'm confused, The same grade Mobil 1 is listed under MB229.3 and MB229.5 (where they recommend the use of a fleece filter.)

    I've spoken to local dealerships (MB Of Warrington and Road range Liverpool, they use Shell Helix and Castrol SLX) so they couldnt (or wouldnt) shed any light---Just which category does anyone know Mobil 1 0W40 falls into? :confused:
     
  14. silverarrow

    silverarrow Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    423
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    have a look at www.screwfix.com oil prices good also stock up when on holls in france fully syn £ 15 for 5 litres even better get car seviced in france save hundreds lol lol lol
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    Meets both specifications. MB229.5 oils are designed for extended drain periods. Also tend to be 5w-30 (ie thinner at higher temperatures) but do not have to be.

    I would prefer to use a 0w-40 rather than a 5w-30 anyway, so Mobil 1 it is
     
  16. bradspau

    bradspau Active Member

    Messages:
    64
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Car:
    Mercedes C180 W203 Facelift (2006)
    Halfords Oil

    I used Halfords own brand syntehtic oil on my last service 5w/40. £29.99 for 5 litres. they were doing a BOGOF last month, dont know if it is still on. I have found no problems with this oil.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    Well, some time ago I was told that the Halfords full synthetic is Esso Ultron sold under a "white label" arrangement. 5w-40 full synthetic.

    But, the Esso brand name is property of Exxon. Or more properly the company known as ExxonMobil

    Who also sell a fully synthetic 5 w-40 oil as Mobil 1.

    So the question nobody seems willing to answer is if Esso Ultron and Mobil 1 are essentailly the same thing sold under different labels. Seems rather difficult to locate the detailed Spec. sheets for Ultron. Odd that.
     
  18. Will

    Will Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    9,708
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    2004 S211 E55K AMG/1988 190E 2.3-16/1988 190E 2.5-16/2003 Porsche 911 3.6 Carrera 2 (345hp Powerkit)
    Does Mobil 1 come in different viscosities? I only ask because I thought it was 0W-40?!?

    And yes, I have used the halfords 5W/40 with no problems - excellent oil for £15/5 litres! :)

    Cheers,

    Will
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Satch

    Satch Hardcore MB Enthusiast

    Messages:
    3,450
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2003
    Location:
    Surrey
    Car:
    S211 E320Cdi Avantgarde Estate & Toyota Land Cruiser
    Mobil 1 is "family" name for a group of products. All a bit confusing.
     
  20. lordofthenazgul

    lordofthenazgul Active Member

    Messages:
    62
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Location:
    NW England
    Car:
    C240 ESPRIT, 1998
    Nice one Satch, thanks for reply earlier.
    You were right.
    Mobil 1 5W40 fully synthetic MB229.3
    Mobil 1 0W40 MB229.5

    I also rang MB customer care UK and all they would recommend was MB229.1 Spec (10W40?)

    Think i'll give the Halfords oil a try, currently £19.99 for 5L.
    ;)
     
Tags:

Share This Page