Purchasing a Used Car Rights & Warranties for the seller.

[flango]

Ok heres a scenario that I would welcome some views on from traders and anyone that might have experienced this.

We are about to sell some cars through our business, the cars have currently been used by family members spouses etc but are registered to the business a limited company. So to keep everything above board I intend selling them through the company, now this is not normal for us we don't usually sell cars just service and repair them. The cars in question are relatively low value £1500 -£3000 will be fully serviced and have full MOT.

As you can appreciate I am well aware of the legal position and sale and supply of goods act etc, and realise that a car can be returned in the first 6 months with a fault and we would have to prove the fault was not there at the sale time (hence the full MOT & service) if we were unwilling to rectify it.

Anyone have any experience of this, how do other traders operate with warrantys, rectification of faults etc.. Any advice would be most welcome as I want to keep the sale of these cars totally transparent and above board, as thats how we operate.

Any feedback on what our real world liabilities are would be greatfully received

Cheers

 

[crockers]

Just thought - but why not offer a used car third party warranty and factor the cost of that into the price..

 

[franey]

I would suggest that as you are not a trader in cars then you cannot and should not sell with the same obligations as a trader.
As you know, just bought the GF's car from a large company but got no warranty with it.
If you service and mot them that's fine but your business is not car sales, it's as easy as that!
I would advertise them all as private sales.

BTW, mums car needs an MOT this week, any chance you can squeeze her in?

 

[219]

Could the family member who has been driving the car perhaps 'buy' it from the company and continue to run it for a month or two before selling it on ? It would then be a bona-fide private sale . At the values you mention , one more owner on the V5 should not matter .

The family member can be 100% truthful in telling the buyer that they bought their former 'company car' at a good price and are now selling it on . My sister has done this with several company cars over the years as her employer has always allowed company car users to purchase company cars for whatever amount the garage offers for it ; she has either passed them onto other family members for the same amount or sold them at a small profit .

 

[flango]

Could the family member who has been driving the car perhaps 'buy' it from the company and continue to run it for a month or two before selling it on ? It would then be a bona-fide private sale . At the values you mention , one more owner on the V5 should not matter .

The family member can be 100% truthful in telling the buyer that they bought their former 'company car' at a good price and are now selling it on . My sister has done this with several company cars over the years as her employer has always allowed company car users to purchase company cars for whatever amount the garage offers for it ; she has either passed them onto other family members for the same amount or sold them at a small profit .

You quite right we could easily sell them as private just by changing the V5 details, it would add another owner too but not sure that is a problem.

Just have niggle somehow that thats not the best way to do it or maybe I am just being too honest? As our main business is in the motor trade then it could be legally argued we are a trader although selling cars is not our main activity.

I appreciate thats not the same as what you are talking about Derek as I too have done that when I used to run a company car, had some really good deals.

Just want to get it right so the buying experience is in line with the rest of the company's ethos

 

[flango]

I would suggest that as you are not a trader in cars then you cannot and should not sell with the same obligations as a trader.
As you know, just bought the GF's car from a large company but got no warranty with it.
If you service and mot them that's fine but your business is not car sales, it's as easy as that!
I would advertise them all as private sales.

BTW, mums car needs an MOT this week, any chance you can squeeze her in?

PM'd you

 

[crockers]

I would suggest that as you are not a trader in cars then you cannot and should not sell with the same obligations as a trader.
As you know, just bought the GF's car from a large company but got no warranty with it.
If you service and mot them that's fine but your business is not car sales, it's as easy as that!

Disagree - the OP's business is in the motor industry so selling a "few cars" through this business is trading. IMHO.

 

[flango]

Disagree - the OP's business is in the motor industry so selling a "few cars" through this business is trading. IMHO.

Thats exactly my view and why I want to get it right

The main question really is what warranty are you obliged to give or is it that you must just comply with the relevant legislation like the sale and supply of goods act etc?

 

[219]

There was another thread recently regarding a member who bought a SL500 Silver Arrow which was advertised by a trader on eBay .

Was there not something to the effect that the rules governing an internet auction are different , and might this be an option ?

 

[franey]

Found this................
Your statutory rights
First and foremost, whoever sells you the car must ensure they have the right to sell it and can pass on full ownership to you. If it turns out that the car is stolen or belongs to a finance company, you will not automatically then own it, even if you have already handed over the cash.
Secondly, the seller must ensure that the car is exactly as described. Therefore if it has air con, CD player etc, then these features must not only exist, but they must also work; if it is in excellent condition, it should be relatively free from marks, scratches, dents and rust; if certain parts have been replaced, they must not then break down after a short time and so on. The description of the car also includes make, model and accurate mileage
Thirdly (and this is where your rights differ), if you have bought the car from a dealer, the car must be of satisfactory quality. Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, taking into account factors such as price paid, fitness for purpose specified, appearance and finish, safety and durability. If it becomes apparent that the car was not of the quality you were led to expect, you are quite within your rights to go back to the dealer, even after some weeks or even months of use. If it was the case that you were invited to carry out a thorough inspection of the car before purchase, and then you go back to complain about something which that inspection should have revealed, you will have no legal rights in that regard.
If you have bought the car from a private seller, who does not normally trade in cars, then there is no legal obligation on the seller to provide a car of satisfactory quality, and it is therefore a much riskier purchase. For this reason, there are more consumer complaints about the purchase of second hand cars than any other, so exercise significant caution – buyer beware!

 

[jaymanek]

Basically if you sell through the business you will be subject to sale of goods.

This does not mean they can return the car if they dont like it, but if there is a serious or material problem then they can come back and demand repair/rectification.

I would advise you to sell the cars privately as the law on used car sales is extremely vague and everyone interprets it differently. It does not really matter who's name is on the log book, if a buyer questions this then you tell them what you have said above, there is nothing illegal about this.

If you need any help, just pick up the phone.

Cheers

Jay

 

[flango]

Basically if you sell through the business you will be subject to sale of goods.

This does not mean they can return the car if they dont like it, but if there is a serious or material problem then they can come back and demand repair/rectification.

I would advise you to sell the cars privately as the law on used car sales is extremely vague and everyone interprets it differently. It does not really matter who's name is on the log book, if a buyer questions this then you tell them what you have said above, there is nothing illegal about this.

If you need any help, just pick up the phone.

Cheers

Jay

Cheers Jay that is very much appreciated, I hoped you would post but felt it was a bit cheeky to ask outright for your opinion.

It's not as though we would be doing this on a regular basis so did not want to get into the second hand car legalities but did want to keep it straight.

Based on your comments I am now more comfortable with a private sale.

Very much appreciate you input , Thanks and good luck with the GTG sorry I cant be there but will be at the German F1 GP, hope the weather takes a turn for the better as well

kindest regards
Ian

 

[Rory]

Maybe it would be best to isolate yourself completely from any comeback by selling them on to the trade?

Or do you hope to get much more for them than their trade value?

Bear in mind the cost of the hassle involved in selling them and then dealing with any subsequent problems.

 

[crockers]

good luck with the GTG sorry I cant be there but will be at the German F1 GP,

Weak excuse.....

 

[Rovinghawk]

I would advertise them all as private sales.

You're advising someone to commit fraud?

RH

 

[jaymanek]

its not fraud as the registered keeper doesnt have to be the owner.

 

[flango]

You're advising someone to commit fraud?

RH

I can confirm 110% that this would not be fraud, my point was more from a moral ethical point of view.

 

[Maz]

Making too much of a hoohah about the whole thing, just advertise it as it is - a part of your companies fleet which are being sold due to being refreshed.

Give them 90 days warranty on the engine and gearbox and be done with it.

 

[Sp!ke]

Just sell them through an auction.

 

[jaymanek]

problem is selling though an auction will get you peanuts... Any buyers at an auction are very wary of cars being sold by individuals or smaller companies as they are usually only sold here if there is something wrong with them.

When we buy at auction we stick to buying from the big sellers... Inchcape, Pendragon, Mercedes Retail etc etc... these are genuine part ex cars and most are checked before they go through the sale.