References

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https://www.gov.uk/work-reference



An employer doesn’t usually have to give a work reference - but if they do, it must be fair and accurate. Workers may be able to challenge a reference they think is unfair or misleading.

Employers must give a reference if:

  • there was a written agreement to do so
  • they’re in a regulated industry, eg financial services
If they give a reference it:

  • must be fair and accurate - and can include details about workers’ performance and if they were sacked
  • can be brief - eg job title, salary and when the worker was employed
Once the worker starts with a new employer they can ask to see a copy of a reference. They have no right to ask their previous employer.
 
https://www.gov.uk/work-reference



An employer doesn’t usually have to give a work reference - but if they do, it must be fair and accurate. Workers may be able to challenge a reference they think is unfair or misleading.

Employers must give a reference if:

  • there was a written agreement to do so
  • they’re in a regulated industry, eg financial services
If they give a reference it:

  • must be fair and accurate - and can include details about workers’ performance and if they were sacked
  • can be brief - eg job title, salary and when the worker was employed
Once the worker starts with a new employer they can ask to see a copy of a reference. They have no right to ask their previous employer.

Latecomers welcome. See post number 7 :D
 
Its perfectly legal to give a bad reference as long as it is fair, true and accurate. Its up to the company to decide to run the risk of a lawsuit but as long as you can prove that what you said about a bad employee is true then you should be fine. The 'illegal to give a bad reference' issue is an urban myth.
 
Hmmm. Lots of the suggestions would see your ex-employee taking you to the cleaners.

A reference (when/if requested) must be:

Honest
Factual
Accurate

You may not include your opinions or private thoughts in a manner that could give a future employer any concern that would otherwise not exist.

Remember (or not) these things are usually cyclic. Your opinion of "Dave " may well match Dave's opinion of you. So If Dave chose to publish his opinion of you to your client base/customers? would you feel aggrieved? If the answer to that is possible, probably, absolutely? Then stick to the law. Subjective negatives are a no no. No matter how well intentioned you may feel they are.

This was brought in to protect employees from being kept out of the job market by employers who bore a grudge.

Employers will usually read a reference that has no positives as a possible warning.

SO..

Dave worked for this company from xxxx till xxxx. That is factual, honest and accurate.

You can leave no answers to written questions. As in leave it blank. Do not write N/A. As in:

Was Dave an honest employee: N/A


Also worth pointing out that not all employees who were sacked deserved to be (not suggesting that this is the case here). But is another part of why there has to be a level of protection afforded in reference responses. Oh and yes. I have seen cases where ex-employees have taken successful legal action over "unfair "references.
 
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...Also worth pointing out that not all employees who were sacked deserved to be (not suggesting that this is the case here). But is another part of why there has to be a level of protection afforded in reference responses. Oh and yes. I have seen cases where ex-employees have taken successful legal action over "unfair "references.

Thanks - just to point out that the employee has not challenged or appealed (yet) the Disciplinary Dismissal itself - at current he simple insists on being provided with References.
 
Others have explained it well, but when I was once asked by a friend informally for a reference on one of my ex-colleagues who had been sacked (for being crap) and somehow my comments got back to the ex-colleague, so I was hauled over the coals by HR who told me there were recent cases (15 years ago?) where people had successfully sued for damage to reputation from a negative reference which can also be negative by virtue of not being given.

Frankly, just send a two liner as others have said confirming that he was an employee between which dates and what position was held.

If you need any more advice speak to UCAS, they are helpful on this sort of thing.
 
Mark Others may offer a different view. For me. Is the ex requesting the reference or is it another employer? I would have no hesitation in providing a reference to an employer. Providing it directly to the ex would (to me) negate it's provenance to a future employer, who would/should contact you directly. This removes any question of the ex simply modifying your reference. To whom it may concern?? No I would contact the previous employer directly and request a reference. I would also copy the reference provided to me as an FYI. Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

Oh. Charles is correct in his experience.
 
Others have explained it well, but when I was once asked by a friend informally for a reference on one of my ex-colleagues who had been sacked (for being crap) and somehow my comments got back to the ex-colleague, so I was hauled over the coals by HR who told me there were recent cases (15 years ago?) where people had successfully sued for damage to reputation from a negative reference which can also be negative by virtue of not being given.

Frankly, just send a two liner as others have said confirming that he was an employee between which dates and what position was held.

If you need any more advice speak to UCAS, they are helpful on this sort of thing.

It was UCCA in my day. Methinks the honourable gentlemen intends to refer you to ACAS :D:D
 
Mark Others may offer a different view. For me. Is the ex requesting the reference or is it another employer? I would have no hesitation in providing a reference to an employer. Providing it directly to the ex would (to me) negate it's provenance to a future employer, who would/should contact you directly. This removes any question of the ex simply modifying your reference. To whom it may concern?? No I would contact the previous employer directly and request a reference. I would also copy the reference provided to me as an FYI. Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

Oh. Charles is correct in his experience.

Unnecessarily overcomplicated. Bland/true/honest/accurate/factual four liner; job jobbed without risking litigation.
 
Err. So you mean like what I said in my first post.

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Err. So you mean like what I said in my first post.

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Sigh....there's always one. See post no two. And by the way, a "to whom it may concern" is the biggest no no of the lot.:eek:
 
brucemillar said:
Why are you repeating my posts? Sent from my iPhone using MBClub UK

Post number two could see Mark in court. Why would he volunteer somebody's " sick record "

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Why are you repeating my posts?

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I didn't think I was.

Post number two could see Mark in court. Why would he volunteer somebody's " sick record "

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Nonsense. Been doing it for years. What's happened to this place? It used to be fun. I'm out.
 
IanA2 said:
I didn't think I was. Nonsense. Been doing it for years. What's happened to this place? It used to be fun. I'm out.

Ian. Why the hostility. I posted a reply which you describe as nonsense. Fair enough. Mark can take your advice.

I would strongly advise that he does not do so.
He has dismissed the individual. Brevity and honesty can have no legal recourse to either party. Introducing somebody's sickness record leaves Mark wide open to legal action. You cannot be sued for not adding information. Especially info that could be seen as discriminating.

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Ian. Why the hostility.

The playground response would seem appropriate here: "Please Sir, he started it"

I posted a reply which you describe as nonsense.
I very specifically referred to your statement about sick leave as being nonsense. I did this because it is nonsense. Speak not of which you do not know.


Fair enough. Mark can take your advice.
I would strongly advise that he does not do so.

It's free advice which anybody can choose to accept or ignore. It's done me well in the past. I got it by experience of hiring and firing highly paid graduates (by that read litigious sorts with the cash to employ lawyers) for over a decade or so and by listening to others and by research and education. I stand by it.

He has dismissed the individual. Brevity and honesty can have no legal recourse to either party. Introducing somebody's sickness record leaves Mark wide open to legal action. You cannot be sued for not adding information. Especially info that could be seen as discriminating.

As above, giving details of a person sickness absence is part of a standard reference format. It is factual, it is a record, it opens no one to legal action. Again speak not of which you do not know.

And again, I'm out, and this time I'm staying out.
 
As above, giving details of a person sickness absence is part of a standard reference format. It is factual, it is a record, it opens no one to legal action. Again speak not of which you do not know.

What he said.
 
IanA2 said:
The playground response would seem appropriate here: "Please Sir, he started it" I very specifically referred to your statement about sick leave as being nonsense. I did this because it is nonsense. Speak not of which you do not know. It's free advice which anybody can choose to accept or ignore. It's done me well in the past. I got it by experience of hiring and firing highly paid graduates (by that read litigious sorts with the cash to employ lawyers) for over a decade or so and by listening to others and by research and education. I stand by it. As above, giving details of a person sickness absence is part of a standard reference format. It is factual, it is a record, it opens no one to legal action. Again speak not of which you do not know. And again, I'm out, and this time I'm staying out.

I'll take my employment law over you hiring and firing School kids.

I think your reaction is over the top. I am trying to offer advice to a member. I clearly state that other views may differ.

I will happily discuss where disclosure of medical history is seen as discrimination.

Point1. Why mention it unless it is to be discriminatory? Or wee you suggesting that Mark could say that the sick record was excellent. Hmmm. No I thought not. You see your problem is you are not qualified and have not thought it through.

Still i would love you to write me a reference.

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Gentlemen... Gentlemen...

There is no issue with sick leave records....

It is simply a question of how to deal with the References issue... I think the 'short and actual' approach will be the most appropriate here.

Thank you all!
 
Wow. Another interesting thread turns into a petty squabble.
 

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