Why buy new diesel cars?

[Deleted member 65149]

I think this is where statistics break down a bit in terms of how meaningful they are. How many of the '12000' in the original headline stat would have had - or had the opportunity to have had - children. 12000 alleged victims of a pollutant vs the consequences of global warming Which is maybe why in Europe it's CO2 that is the strategic focus and the effect of diesels in town a tactical issue. Somebody has maybe done the calculations in some back room and figured that shifting away from diesel is going to cause more problems than it actually solves. The solution is really to cut personal journeys. If people don't travel as much then the energy and any emissions associated with it drop - whether generated by the vehicle or by a powerstation used to charge the vehicle or by other facets of the supply chaain asociated with energy supply.

"12000 alleged victims of a pollutant vs the consequences of global warming" Only one alleged? What are the proven [negative] consequences of global warming caused by CO2 from cars as opposed to natural sources? How many people are alleged to have already died as a result? I don't expect figures by the way, they were rhetorical questions.

However, I totally agree with your closing statement. The only real solution is to cut personal travel in motorised transport.

 

[400ixl]

Unfortunately that is going the other way with a higher number of people commuting more than 1 hour each way to work.

 

[John]

The steering wheel is junk but the series 2 comfort seats are superb.

What are you referring to with series 2?

 

[Fendttrisix]

Reading these comments. I can see some people claiming diesels are dirty. In fact the last few years of cars,truck,tractors,buses have all been using engines with no less than tier4 emissions requirements, most using adblue. The latest tier 5 and 6 Diesel engines are far cleaner than any petrol engine. In a lot of areas the exhaust gases coming out of the latest diesels are cleaner than what is being sucked in. Yes the engine is like a air purifier. The chemical reactions that happen inside the CATS,DOC and SCR systems in the vehicle turns a lot of the nasty stuff into water. The diesel fuel we put in now has changed a lot aswell,i.e. Sulphur reduced. The engine oils now are low ash rated , which in basic terms means when it's burnt it can be easily cleaned up by the exhaust treatments. If in doubt what I am saying ,just google it .

 

[Dryce]

In a lot of areas the exhaust gases coming out of the latest diesels are cleaner than what is being sucked in. Yes the engine is like a air purifier. The chemical reactions that happen inside the CATS,DOC and SCR systems in the vehicle turns a lot of the nasty stuff into water.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

Well that's what we'd like to think. But is it what we really believe?

We have the government telling us what to do, the academics and scientists telling us that either we're killing people or we're all going to die. And then you come along and tell us the world of combustion engines is pure and fragrant.

I know .... I'll phone up an expert .... such as chief engineer at VAG and ask what he or she thinks is the truth .......

Then again maybe not.:fail

 

[markjay]

Sadiq Khan is proposing an Ultra Low Emission Zone to be introduced in central London from 2020. Diesel cars entering the zone must conform to certain standards, or they will have to pay a charge. That standard is EU6, which is the current standard.

The idea is obviously that drivers will avoid entering the zone if their diesel cars are old.... but there's always the possibility that - like with congestion charge - drivers will continue driving into the zone and pay the charge - in which case it will be a nice little earner for TfL but won't make much difference to air quality.

 

[Lennox]

What are you referring to with series 2?

With the launch of the dual motor there were some updated options such as the "performance seats" this model year I refer to as series two.

Series three is the facelift that they have just received with the 100D being launched.

Sorry not scientific but they do align.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

The idea is obviously that drivers will avoid entering the zone if their diesel cars are old.... but there's always the possibility that - like with congestion charge - drivers will continue driving into the zone and pay the charge - in which case it will be a nice little earner for TfL but won't make much difference to air quality.

Has there been a turnaround with the congestion charge? I'd read many reports during Boris' time that it was too effective and costing more to run than the income.

 

[Fendttrisix]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Well that's what we'd like to think. But is it what we really believe? We have the government telling us what to do, the academics and scientists telling us that either we're killing people or we're all going to die. And then you come along and tell us the world of combustion engines is pure and fragrant. I know .... I'll phone up an expert .... such as chief engineer at VAG and ask what he or she thinks is the truth ....... Then again maybe not.:fail

I know we're you are coming from. The media is has a lot to answer for as they love a story. The reason vw got caught is due to the fact there are emission standards!
There is no defence for them but what they failed on was still a lot cleaner than you are made to think. When was the last time you seen a cloud of black smoke out of a diesel ? . Quite often you see engine oil burning blue smoke coming from a high mileage petrol car as a petrol does not have the exhaust equipment to help hide this.
You are far more likely to die from breathing petrol car fumes than diesel fumes from a modern engine. Most garages don't need to use exhaust extractors in there workshops now when running diesel cars as they are safer than petrol.! At the end of the day if modern view is clean electric, the car is clean when driving but the cost to the environment when producing batteries and disposal of wasted ones has still to be answered. There is no point moaning about what is clean and what isn't. Every thing produced has a downside. Oh , maybe nuclear powered cars might be an option. After all the fossil burning power stations,boat and subs find them more efficient and cleaner , ah but there is also a downside to them too eh.

 

[tode]

"12000 alleged victims of a pollutant vs the consequences of global warming" Only one alleged? What are the proven [negative] consequences of global warming caused by CO2 from cars as opposed to natural sources? How many people are alleged to have already died as a result? I don't expect figures by the way, they were rhetorical questions.

However, I totally agree with your closing statement. The only real solution is to cut personal travel in motorised transport.

Putting my cards on the table: I've always been keen on diesel engines, mostly for their power output.

That said, I totally agree that we shouldn't poison ourselves and our children - which the diesels did (and most still do).

But the solution is not to stop motorised transport, but rather to push to get the combustion engines cleaned up, surely.

The progress that's been made in the last fifteen years or so is (to me ) quite astonishing - it must be continued and applied to all vehicles.

Imho.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

I've read every post in this thread. Very interesting. I totally understand and respect the OP's point of view. However, I'm a Dad, IMO a great dad, my daughters health to me is the most important thing in the world.

We have a diesel E220. Lovely car. We bought it on its price and value for money. I never even thought about its Saftey. So, I do care about my daughter health, but was not aware that getting this car was to any detriment to her in any way.

Maybe that's it. Maybe we're just not clued up enough. Who's to blame? Not sure, but I'd never intentionally put anyone at risk let alone my own blood.

If there is a major risk, I blame car manufactuers and the laws for allowing such things. After all it is them that are meant to know it all.

Ant.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Reading these comments. I can see some people claiming diesels are dirty. In fact the last few years of cars,truck,tractors,buses have all been using engines with no less than tier4 emissions requirements, most using adblue. The latest tier 5 and 6 Diesel engines are far cleaner than any petrol engine. In a lot of areas the exhaust gases coming out of the latest diesels are cleaner than what is being sucked in. Yes the engine is like a air purifier. The chemical reactions that happen inside the CATS,DOC and SCR systems in the vehicle turns a lot of the nasty stuff into water. The diesel fuel we put in now has changed a lot aswell,i.e. Sulphur reduced. The engine oils now are low ash rated , which in basic terms means when it's burnt it can be easily cleaned up by the exhaust treatments. If in doubt what I am saying ,just google it .

Googled it without success. All I could find is that Tier 5 (EU stage V) emission standards are due to be implemented in 2019/20. Those standards allow a far higher NOx level for diesels than petrol cars emit today. Are you saying that Diesel engine manufacturers are going to make their engines far exceed those standards, despite the extra production costs and practical hurdles of manufacture within the existing space requirements? Have they already solved the significantly higher maintenance costs currently predicted to be associated with the emission control systems you talked about?

 

[tode]

The (diesel) Mercedes that I bought in 2011 was already Euro6 compliant (DPF and Adblue injection).

As you can see from the chart below, the emission levels in Euro6 for diesels and petrol cars are comparable.

But there's still room for progress . .

 

[Yugguy]

I think this thread is just a vehicle for the op's prejudices.

 

[markjay]

Has there been a turnaround with the congestion charge? I'd read many reports during Boris' time that it was too effective and costing more to run than the income.

That depends.

Traffic volumes did go down, which TfL used as justification for removing road space for cars and adding more cycle lanes, with the overall result that congestion levels in London now are the same as they were before the charge was introduced.

 

[markjay]

Why do London Taxis still run on Diesel? Why not electric?

 

[HB]

I think this thread is just a vehicle for the op's prejudices.

I'll give him our 350cdi for a week. The level of refinement is outstanding combined with its performance and economy, I can't see how the petrol 350 is so amazing. Before starts, there's a 5.5tt parked behind it.

Pollution from the exhaust, we'll be dead long before that from something else.

 

[rockits]

Last stats I read some time back made global vehicle emisssions of all motor vehicles @ 1% of total global emissions of harmful gases. Aviation accounted for 17% and shipping 40%.

Not sure if those figures are right now but if so it really doesn't make much of a dent in global harmful gases when aviation & shipping account for over half. Buying a diesel or petrol is not really much of an issue when you look at the bigger picture.

I'll still take the V8!

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I'll give him our 350cdi for a week. The level of refinement is outstanding combined with its performance and economy, I can't see how the petrol 350 is so amazing. Before starts, there's a 5.5tt parked behind it. Pollution from the exhaust, we'll be dead long before that from something else.

No thanks. I had one for a day and wasn't impressed. It was OK but that was it. Have you tried the latest 350 petrol? It may not be amazing but for me it's better than the cdi. Horses for courses I guess (the horses pun was intentional).

 

[HB]

No thanks. I had one for a day and wasn't impressed. It was OK but that was it. Have you tried the latest 350 petrol? It may not be amazing but for me it's better than the cdi. Horses for courses I guess (the horses pun was intentional).

I have been in a C350 petrol a few times. Lovely car, lovely engine.

What many of us don't understand is your such distaste of all diesels. Many people who have been in our 350 don't believe it's diesel as it's so quiet and refined. In fact I bet a C350 Cdi is just as quiet as the petrol one at 70 mph. Maybe quieter.

In terms of horses, a standard 350 Cdi won't be far behind yours , a remapped one would blow your doors off. Ours is running 310 Bhp with 550ft lbs of torque.

Again in terms of pollution, it's what serves the government pocket best at the time.