Why in God's name don't they make an E400 saloon/ wagon?!

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The engine is extremely quiet (in comfort) after the cdi that I'm still checking if it's off!

I keep trying to explain to people who say "you can't tell it is a diesel" that you can always tell, you can't understand just how refined a decent petrol 6 or 8 cylinder is until you live with one.
To me this is what truly makes cars like Mercedes so special.
 
Well the e350cdi is pretty refined compared to some petrols hence I can understand the "you can't tell it's a diesel" comments. However the s213 just seems quieter generally (road noise) than the s212, plus of course the 3.0V6 TT does seem especially refined. However I'm still under 100miles so need to press on with the running in!
 
The lack of petrol engined Mercedes cars is why i am looking at buying a used Audi S4.
 
It is a real shame, especially when they have cars like the C300 with 245hp, which they could easily bring to the UK as it is just a retuned C200.
Then you have the C400, with 333hp which is the regular 3 litre 6 cylinder car if you don't want the C43 and just want a more every car with some decent poke.

Mercedes petrol engines are arguably the best they have ever been, Mercedes UK just seem to be chasing the company car buyer and those that just want a badge for the neighbours to see and don't care what it is underneath. A real shame.

But if it is what sells then so be it.
 
the bi turbo V6 in my SL400 is a detuned version of the V6 in the 43 AMG cars.

I find the V6 plenty powerful, free revving enough, responsive and sounds good too, with the rear silencers removed -- especially on start up.
 
I agree with you Sean. On a sunny day with the roof down the R231 is a lovely place to be, and it turns heads still. It also feels pretty special, in the way a much more expensive car does.

For daily though I needed something more Limo like with Estate capacity. There's simply no need or advantage for me buying diesel.

Mercedes had the E43 or the E63. I was tempted by the E43 but I didn't really want an AMG offering and I wanted some choice in exterior and interior colour. An E400 or E500 4Matic I would probably have been in one already, but they are just not available to the UK market due to the very take up on them.

I looked at BMW and they didn't do the 550i as an estate, so then I looked at Audi, and the reality is if they had sold an A6 3.0 TFSi Avant in the UK I'd probably be driving one now, but they did such a short run of these here and no longer offer them. The A4 was a bit small so I test drove an S6 after getting a huge discounted quote through Orange Wheels. I was hooked from the moment I drove it (it took them 3 weeks to find one in the UK for me to drive though, and then it was a saloon).

So I didn't set out specifically to buy an Audi S6, I just ended up there in my search for mid-large capacity large petrol estate car that was more comfy than bonkers.
 
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I love my CLS55k daily, but for 95% of my driving my much loved and now departed W211 E500 "amg"sport was much quieter , more comfortable, more economical and a far smoother drive.

LJK Setright often wrote that he thought the sweetspot in any range was the one just below the ultimate performance model for those sorts of reasons.

Driving an E500 I like to think I am a very discerning gentleman.

But then again, you have the
I agree with you Sean. On a sunny day with the roof down the R231 is a lovely place to be, and it turns heads still. It also feels pretty special, in the way a much more expensive car does.

For daily though I needed something more Limo like with Estate capacity. There's simply no need or advantage for me buying diesel.

Mercedes had the E43 or the E63. I was tempted by the E43 but I didn't really want an AMG offering and I wanted some choice in exterior and interior colour. An E400 or E500 4Matic I would probably have been in one already, but they are just not available to the UK market due to the very take up on them.

I looked at BMW and they didn't do the 550i as an estate, so then I looked at Audi, and the reality is if they had sold an A6 3.0 TFSi Avant in the UK I'd probably be driving one now, but they did such a short run of these here and no longer offer them. The A4 was a bit small so I test drove an S6 after getting a huge discounted quote through Orange Wheels. I was hooked from the moment I drove it (it took them 3 weeks to find one in the UK for me to drive though, and then it was a saloon).

So I didn't set out specifically to buy an Audi S6, I just ended up there in my search for mid-large capacity large petrol estate car that was more comfy than bonkers.

Early this year I was doing a search for a mate who at the time was hoping to spend 20k-ish on 3-4 year old non-diesel E Class-sized saloon.

The only realistic manufacturers were Audi, BMW and Lexus.

His business then took a bit of a dive so he got a cheap stop gap but given the choice he would probably gone for the GS 450H as it could do the London school run on batteries and still have a proper petrol 3.5 V6 for out of town.

Why do MB hobble their hybrids by insisting they have 4 pot petrol or eve diesel (!) powerplants? Makes no sense to me.
 
I don't get much of Mercedes thinking these days.

Hybrid cars like the E350 with a 4cyl when everyone else uses a straight six?
Hybrid cars like the E300 with a 4cyl diesel??!!

No light coloured interior options unless you want a base spec model?

Adding option packs that push many of the models over the £40k mark and no way of choosing the individual items?
I would like ambient lighting which is a €320 option in mainland Europe......."no problem sir, that will be £3500 as it comes with loads of stuff you don't want." Brilliant!


Starting price for a petrol E Class estate, with the only options ticked being removal of all the chrome tat (which really shouldn't be on there in 2017 anyway) and upgraded speakers is now ££59,400.

I can get the equivalent BMW 540i xDrive Touring at nearly £12,000 cheaper.

Having an "AMG" badged E400 as an entry point for your petrol model is just ridiculous.
 
I just thought I would see how much more an E63s Estate was.

I will be honest, I am stunned, after adding a few options I would expect on that car, it is £126,000 before some discount!

Screen Shot 2017-09-22 at 10.23.17.png

Maybe I'm just out of touch? Getting old and grumpy?
I'm sure it is a lovely estate car, but that price has genuinely shocked me.
 
Starting price for a petrol E Class estate, with the only options ticked being removal of all the chrome tat (which really shouldn't be on there in 2017 anyway) and upgraded speakers is now ££59,400.

This is what made the S6 so attractive. After broker discounts and lots of options (Nearly £10K in options) including custom order paint the OTR price was £60,025, at which point Audi then offered a further £5,800 deposit contribution if I took out some finance. For a 450+ hp 4.0tt V8.
 
I suspect this is a "never mind the quality feel the width" issue. Its purely MB UK mediated as already pointed out.
There may be RHD/LHD model issues but I suspect not. More likely to be a volume/profit conflict, where its more profitable to market luxury saloons with essentially a van engine while you can get away with it. This may make perfect sense in the short term but if prospective buyers then flock to rival manufacturers not so much in the longer term. :(
 
Gizze - The E63 is on par with the M5/RS6/Panamera Turbo in terms of cost and getting well over £100K with options. Serious money to buy now and some huge depreciation likely.

I did look at the A6 when I bought my E43 and frankly the Audi dealer was throwing offers at me for a S6. I just didn't like the interior /tech/ handling as much as the S213 but I certainly could have got a better deal than the E43. Also I wouldn't have waited to long.
 
Gizze - The E63 is on par with the M5/RS6/Panamera Turbo in terms of cost and getting well over £100K with options. Serious money to buy now and some huge depreciation likely.

I did look at the A6 when I bought my E43 and frankly the Audi dealer was throwing offers at me for a S6. I just didn't like the interior /tech/ handling as much as the S213 but I certainly could have got a better deal than the E43. Also I wouldn't have waited to long.

The big issue though is the M5(not available as an Estate)/RS6/Panamera Turbo all hold their money far better than an AMG product by a long way. Particularly the Porsche, closely followed by the RS6. Actually I'd suggest the Porsche is next level, particularly the new Panamera Sport Turismo.

You're right about the S6, it's an outgoing model and there are huge offers available (new S6 and RS6 will be V6's), I didn't like the quilted sports seats so I opted for Comfort Seats (which I'm not sure if they are available now) which made a huge difference for an extra £300.

The tech I found far superior to our S212 E Class but I've not compared it to the new S213 which is no doubt a step forward.

Handling in the S6 is completely different to the A6 due to the standard Dynamic Handling pack which can be completely customised to suit.
 
Porsche really do know how to project residuals well (hopefully for my 911 too whenever I get to sell it) and the E63 AMG I'd only really consider 2nd hand due to depreciation. I sat in a Panamera Turismo Turbo on Monday in the dealer and the "haptic" buttons (like the s213 steering wheel buttons) were very cool although covered in greasy fingerprints! Also the boot is pretty small compared to the Aseries/Eclass/5series.

For me its a world of difference between the 212 and 213 in terms of interior tech so far.
 
The Panamera Turismo I will own at some point in the future.

Problem I see with Porsche, is there is often no reason to buy a used car, I would like a Cayenne, however, 7 year old Hybrids with 50k miles are still £30k, may as well just buy a new one for £60k.

2 year old ones are £50k.
3 year old ones are £45k.
5year old ones are £35k.
7 year old ones are £30k.

Lose £500 a month buying at 2 years old, 3 years old, or lose £600 a month buying new?

Not flooding the market with cheap cars at the end of the model life makes a huge difference and it keeps customers coming back.

Silly deals like the E350d AMG Line Estates at £189+vat a month with 9 months down at the end of the S212 life was stupid, the guys that paid £45k for theirs discounted are going to feel a bit peeved come trade in.

I would rather see no discounts, proper RRPs not inflated ones knowing 20% off is achievable, would be better for everyone.
You don't get stuffed on BIK, you don't get stuffed on road tax, you know what you will lose from the start and it just makes more sense all round. IMHO of course.
 
I struggle with Porsche a little. I tried to order a 991.2 911GT3 earlier this year and pretty much just got laughed at. One dealer even said he'd effectively be handing me a "free" £50K if he allowed me to order a GT3 with an inference that kickbacks in the form of buying multiple other models over invoice were encouraged before you'd be "allowed" to order a GT3. It seems it's a UK only problem, the side effect on our RHD status. There's no waiting list in Belgium, unfortunately Porsche.be won't sell a RHD model.
 
The Panamera Turismo I will own at some point in the future.

Problem I see with Porsche, is there is often no reason to buy a used car, I would like a Cayenne, however, 7 year old Hybrids with 50k miles are still £30k, may as well just buy a new one for £60k.

2 year old ones are £50k.
3 year old ones are £45k.
5year old ones are £35k.
7 year old ones are £30k.

Lose £500 a month buying at 2 years old, 3 years old, or lose £600 a month buying new?

Not flooding the market with cheap cars at the end of the model life makes a huge difference and it keeps customers coming back.

Silly deals like the E350d AMG Line Estates at £189+vat a month with 9 months down at the end of the S212 life was stupid, the guys that paid £45k for theirs discounted are going to feel a bit peeved come trade in.

I would rather see no discounts, proper RRPs not inflated ones knowing 20% off is achievable, would be better for everyone.
You don't get stuffed on BIK, you don't get stuffed on road tax, you know what you will lose from the start and it just makes more sense all round. IMHO of course.

Porsche prices lists are misleading though when used as a basis to calculate residuals. It's quite "Normal" for there to be £20K in options in pretty much any Cayenne, 911 or Panamera when it leaves the showroom.

So your new £60K Porsche is more realistically £75K to £80K which makes more sense with the residual figures.
 
They do that to try and stop 'flippers' buying them, so those that genuinely want one to....you know, drive, can get them.

It sort of works, but frustrating if you do want one and also I'm sure this also causes the massive used over rrp prices too. A vicious circle.

If they let anyone order one there wouldn't be flippers.
 
They do that to try and stop 'flippers' buying them, so those that genuinely want one to....you know, drive, can get them.

It sort of works, but frustrating if you do want one and also I'm sure this also causes the massive used over rrp prices too. A vicious circle.

If they let anyone order one there wouldn't be flippers.

That's just bo11ocks I'm afraid. Porsche say they are trying to stop flipping, just watch the Pistonheads classified ads when deliveries start in earnest. Many don't even leave the supplying dealer and are offered for sale by a buyer who has "changed their mind" meaning the dealer gets to sell the car twice and also picks up a kickback.

The solution is quite simple, build more, they have the capacity but they choose not to to create artificial demand.
 
Looking on Autotrader a 2014 C63 with about 30k miles is around £32k, whereas a Audi S4 with a 400bhp tune is £22k.
 

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