Winter tyres saved me three times!!!!

[markjay]

MB Manual says that the temp display should not be used to judge whether the road might be icy or not.

Yet on my previous car - German-built 2001 Vauxhall Omega - the temp display flashed whenever the temp went down to +3, the manual said it was to warn the driver that from +3 and down there may be black ice on the road and that the driving style should be adjusted accordingly.

Looks like the engineers at Adam Opel AG got it right then...

 

[Dryce]

MB Manual says that the temp display should not be used to judge whether the road might be icy or not.

Liability issue methinks.

Common sense applies. It's a useful indicator of ambient conditions.

 

[Mercy1]

It's not me that needs to prove my Winter tyres are working.

If not you, then who is it that needs to prove your Winter tyres are working...?

...'ang about, you don't do winter tyres...

...you crafty devil, you've gone and bought some haven't you...?? :bannana:

 

[st4]

I love the smugness that some people have about fitting winter tyres. I am not disputing they will help with tyre adhesion to the road in snow/ice/cold weather and they do operate in conditions below 7c better than a normal tyre.

However, unless the weather is seriously bad, and it has not been this year, your normal tyres are still up for the job and if you take care, you will get to your destination, it just might take 5mins longer.

What winter tyres will not do is stop anyone else veering into you because their tyres are not suitable or they haven't adjusted their driving to suit the conidtions. Given that its usually other peoples driving that most folk take issue with on here, I can not see how your tyres will save you from someone elses driving.

 

[Apial]

Hmm...no cold temperatures recorded by the met office, no severe weather warnings issued for Lincolnshire.

It's not me that needs to prove my Winter tyres are working.

I don't need the met office to tell me that there is ice. I've just driven on it, the last being yesterday evening
! Or did I imagine it???

Its a fact that roughly 50% of the days in January and February have a recorded ground frost and thats what the met office say themselves. The average low temperature for Waddington is barely above freezing during these months, and sunrise temperatures on the Wolds are lower still.

I don't know why, but some kind hearted person made the decision many years ago to grit the road so you summer tyred folk could get about. If you lived in an area where there is no gritting you might not be so smug with your summer tyres and claims of superior driving etc. You would realise that you had to look after your own safety and not rely on some gritter to make your road safe.

 

[oldcro]

I love the smugness that some people have about fitting winter tyres. I am not disputing they will help with tyre adhesion to the road in snow/ice/cold weather and they do operate in conditions below 7c better than a normal tyre.

However, unless the weather is seriously bad, and it has not been this year, your normal tyres are still up for the job and if you take care, you will get to your destination, it just might take 5mins longer.

What winter tyres will not do is stop anyone else veering into you because their tyres are not suitable or they haven't adjusted their driving to suit the conidtions. Given that its usually other peoples driving that most folk take issue with on here, I can not see how your tyres will save you from someone elses driving.

NO but Winter tyres will provide more grip thus giving the driver a better chance of avoiding the car sliding out of control into your path.

 

[Apial]

I love the smugness that some people have about fitting winter tyres. I am not disputing they will help with tyre adhesion to the road in snow/ice/cold weather and they do operate in conditions below 7c better than a normal tyre.

However, unless the weather is seriously bad, and it has not been this year, your normal tyres are still up for the job and if you take care, you will get to your destination, it just might take 5mins longer.

What winter tyres will not do is stop anyone else veering into you because their tyres are not suitable or they haven't adjusted their driving to suit the conidtions. Given that its usually other peoples driving that most folk take issue with on here, I can not see how your tyres will save you from someone elses driving.

Winter tyres in winter conditions are no different than ABS brakes on a wet road. The use of either will increase road safety when used sensibly. Those vehicles not using either will not have this benefit.

A couple of winters ago I had the need to make an emergency stop on an icy road to avoid a head -on collision with another motorist who had understeered so badly that they had actually touched the verge on my side of the road. How we missed each other I do not know but I am surprised that my door mirror is still attached. One of my passengers suffered seatbelt burns to their neck. It was snowing at the time and the edges of the road were slushy. Had my car been fitted with summer tyres I might not be typing this now. We were so shocked we had to pull off the road to recover our senses.

So I am pleased you love my "smugness" and I am equally pleased that I am still alive as well as my entire family that were in the car at the time.

 

[renault12ts]

I have absolutely no doubt that winter tyres are of great benefit. But I took exception to the OP congratulating himself on having them...whilst traveling at 90mph close to zero oC...foolish.

The laws of physics (ie momentum) will not be overcome by winter or any other tyre if you are travelling too fast for the conditions in the first place. Remember even your car manual advises this when advising about the abs brakes.

 

[markjay]

I love the smugness that some people have about fitting winter tyres. I am not disputing they will help with tyre adhesion to the road in snow/ice/cold weather and they do operate in conditions below 7c better than a normal tyre.

However, unless the weather is seriously bad, and it has not been this year, your normal tyres are still up for the job and if you take care, you will get to your destination, it just might take 5mins longer.

What winter tyres will not do is stop anyone else veering into you because their tyres are not suitable or they haven't adjusted their driving to suit the conidtions. Given that its usually other peoples driving that most folk take issue with on here, I can not see how your tyres will save you from someone elses driving.

NO but Winter tyres will provide more grip thus giving the driver a better chance of avoiding the car sliding out of control into your path.

Indeed, when ambient temp is low, it's the driver with summer tyres that will crash into the driver with proper cold-weather tyres.

And, when the temp is above 7 degrees, it will be the driver on cold-weather tyres that will crash into the summer-tyres driver.

Since temperatures during winter (in the SE anyway) tend to fluctuate around the 7 degrees mark, it is pot luck who hits who, call it weather lottery if you like.

Motorists do not have the benefit of race track drivers who can pull over into the pit and have slicks changes for grooved tyres and vice versa to suit sudden changes in weather.

Using cold weather tyres in winter and summer tyres in summer is a reasonable statistical method of reducing the on-average risk. But it is still a rather blunt instrument as such.

 

[markjay]

I have absolutely no doubt that winter tyres are of great benefit. But I took exception to the OP congratulating himself on having them...whilst traveling at 90mph close to zero oC...foolish.

The laws of physics (ie momentum) will not be overcome by winter or any other tyre if you are travelling too fast for the conditions in the first place. Remember even your car manual advises this when advising about the abs brakes.

As every car manual points out... ABS and ESP are not substitute for careful driving adapted to the condition of the road.

Driving fast in bad weather because the car is fitted with winter-tyres is akin to crashing head-on into a wall because the car has air-bags.

One should always drive as if the car has no ABS, no ESP, no winter tyres, and no air-bags.... it's the drivers last line of defence, not first.

Any situation where either of the above helped prevent an accident should give rise to the question whether something was wrongly done in the first place.

 

[talleres]

Apial, you're wasting your time!

Some of the justifications for using summer tyres in current conditions remind me of those made for using tyres at 1.6mm because they are legal and "good enough" - and anyway, one can always walk if the weather's too bad to drive at that tread depth!

There was a time when ABS was an option, yet it was always a no-brainer to specify instead of the equally at the time optional alloy wheels, upgraded stereo and sun-roof. Of course one could always learn cadence braking instead and save the cost of ABS - after all, that's nearly as good as the worst ABS systems when they were launched, and you're a wimp if you cannot learn to drive according to the conditions.

Apart from the legal issue, the same anti-winter-tyres arguments can be applied even to nearly bald tyres (as I've seen in the UK). They're "fine" enough in the summer and our mild winters - except perhaps when it rains..........whilst you're on a motorway...... in which case just drive in towns/cities, slow down, and avoid motorways.

 

[markjay]

No one is suggesting that using cold weather tyres on snow or ice or when temperatures dip below +7 is not safer or not beneficial.

What we are saying is that while cars with ABS / ESP / Airbags are clearly safer, this does not means that cars with no ABS / ESP / Airbags are not safe enough to be driven on public roads - and the same applies for use of summer tyres in winter.

Or... if you can afford it, a new S-Class will be safer than a new A-Class. Does this automatically makes the A-Class a dangerous or unsafe car?

 

[renault12ts]

Apial, you're wasting your time!

Some of the justifications for using summer tyres in current conditions remind me of those made for using tyres at 1.6mm because they are legal and "good enough" - and anyway, one can always walk if the weather's too bad to drive at that tread depth!

There was a time when ABS was an option, yet it was always a no-brainer to specify instead of the equally at the time optional alloy wheels, upgraded stereo and sun-roof. Of course one could always learn cadence braking instead and save the cost of ABS - after all, that's nearly as good as the worst ABS systems when they were launched, and you're a wimp if you cannot learn to drive according to the conditions.

Apart from the legal issue, the same anti-winter-tyres arguments can be applied even to nearly bald tyres (as I've seen in the UK). They're "fine" enough in the summer and our mild winters - except perhaps when it rains..........whilst you're on a motorway...... in which case just drive in towns/cities, slow down, and avoid motorways.

Read the most recent posts by me and Markjay. Winter tyres are good.

Buy travelling at silly speeds at close to or at zero is just stupid...no matter what the tyres. Would you say differently?

 

[talleres]

Some of you are saying winter tyres are not justified in the UK, especially under current conditions.

Some of us are saying it is our choice to use them, and are happy to exercise our rights to do so, without being argumentative about your rights to not use them. We're sharing our experiences in a constructive manner. Are the detractors?

And if I came on here to explain how my winter tyres saved my life or one extra hour's travelling time across France, it's not constructive to have anyone on here deriding my posts, even if I drove when they wouldn't, at speeds they likely wouldn't. What Borys did was likely within German motoring laws (correct me if wrong). If the law allows it, and given the tendency of German cars to be fitted with winter tyres, 90mph may be no problem at all - it is well below the speed rating of my own winter tyres, by the way!

Markjay, your A-class and S-Class analogies don't apply. As far as I can tell, no-one here with an A-class has posted any derisory remarks about anyone with an S-Class where the latter has posted about the wonders of his S-Class, the former arguing that his A-Class would've done the job well enough. Or have they?

 

[renault12ts]

Some of you are saying winter tyres are not justified in the UK, especially under current conditions.

Some of us are saying it is our choice to use them, and are happy to exercise our rights to do so, without being argumentative about your rights to not use them. We're sharing our experiences in a constructive manner. Are the detractors?

And if I came on here to explain how my winter tyres saved my life or one extra hour's travelling time across France, it's not constructive to have anyone on here deriding my posts, even if I drove when they wouldn't, at speeds they likely wouldn't. What Borys did was likely within German motoring laws (correct me if wrong). If the law allows it, and given the tendency of German cars to be fitted with winter tyres, 90mph may be no problem at all - it is well below the speed rating of my own winter tyres, by the way!

Again...the tyres are not the problem...the speed in icey conditions is. After all travelling at 70 through fog is legal...but would you do it?

 

[markjay]

The law does not actually say that you can drive at 90mph - or 70mph - in any country.

The law says that you can drive at a speed of up to 90mph - or 70mph - but at any rate not more than the road conditions can accommodate safely.

If you drive at 70mph on a Motorway in the UK - Winter tyres or not - in heavy rain, fog, or poor visibility - and crash - you will be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

The legal speed limit is not a substitute for driving at a speed suitable for the road and driving conditions at the time.

To clarify - in this post I am not criticising the speed you were driving at in germany, I don't have the full details of the conditions at the time to say that. This post simply takes exception with what you appear to be saying which is that as long as you are driving at the legal speed limit you are not breaking law - regardless of road conditions?

 

[talleres]

Fog is not the same thing.

Goodnight.

Markjay, I did not state I drove in the UK at 90mph. I stated that my winter tyres have a speed rating far in excess of 90mph, and I'd expect I could use them in Germany this winter at that speed knowing there's a greater proportion of cars on the road similarly shod.

You cannot safely do the same in the UK (at the 70mph limit) precisely because people like me are in the minority with our tyre choices, whilst the summer tyre brigade insist on exercising their rights. That's fine. But that brigade should please stop wagging their fingers at us - for spending our own money being safer on the roads. I wonder if they might even complain that I change my tyres at 3mm, rather than the 1.6mm standard. Yet it is still my own money. And I've a safer shod car for it.

 

[markjay]

...After all travelling at 70 through fog is legal..

Not it isn't... as it constitutes dangerous driving or driving without due care etc. Though you will only be prosecuted if you actually crash. But this is due to practical enforcement issues (much as tailgating), but it is still illegal even when not enforced.

 

[renault12ts]

Fog is not the same thing.

Goodnight.

Freezing fog is pretty hostile.

Good night.

 

[markjay]

Good night indeed