£100 parking invoices are resonable after all

[nick mercedes]

The Law on Penalties After ParkingEye v Beavis : Articles : Insights : Hardwicke

"From the point of view of the consumer and the ‘take it or leave it’ contracts we make every day when we buy goods or services (or drive into a car park) we consider that the decision is something of a setback making it more difficult to defend claims for deterrent charges when the consumer is in breach."

Looks like this opens the door to consumers facing yet more costs, and corporate greed?

At least the overpaid legal profession will get even richer...

 

[Dryce]

This is worrying because I think it's unreasonable for a business model to fund itself from these penalty charges.

It looks like in some cases these companies are *paying* the site owners to operate on their sites - the £100 or whatever is a charge that is set not to cover loss or the cost of parking but simply the profit and operating costs of the enforcement system - which is there to make that profit.

My feeling is that this could be knocked on the head if the charges were reduced to something sensible.

It's a pity that the public wouldn't get organised and have a 'strike' in the run up to Christmas where they boycotted shopping centres or other sites that operate these schemes.

 

[nick mercedes]

It's a pity that the public wouldn't get organised and have a 'strike' in the run up to Christmas where they boycotted shopping centres or other sites that operate these schemes.

Exactly, if a list of PE sites were to be published we could all vote with our feet.

Presumably now as carparks are cashcows proper business rates should be paid on them?

 

[Grey Area]

This is worrying because I think it's unreasonable for a business model to fund itself from these penalty charges...

Apparently the supreme court disagrees and even goes so far as to enshrine in legal precedent their right to make money this way, despite the fact that most people (myself included) would agree with you. This was a perfect opportunity for the courts to decide a reasonable upper limit on these parking charges and they didn't even do that

 

[Dryce]

Apparently the supreme court disagrees and even goes so far as to enshrine in legal precedent their right to make money this way, despite the fact that most people (myself included) would agree with you. This was a perfect opportunity for the courts to decide a reasonable upper limit on these parking charges and they didn't even do that

Distinctly un-British approach to law (or Un-English given the jurisdiction).

I think that HMG and the courts have failed the public on this. There is a need to enforce / deter abuse of parking on private land but there is also a need to do so properly.

Whether it be clampers or these parking enforcement companies HMG and the courts have basically failed to stop it looking like a parody of the wild west over the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[Dryce]

Exactly, if a list of PE sites were to be published we could all vote with our feet.

In Scotland we're not quite as exposed to this because of the way Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (doesn't) work here.

But they still try.

 

[flango]

I did give you the heads up on this a few months ago, when everybody said ignore the penalty notices you get. Not wise to do so and now precedent has been set there is very little counter argument or mitigation

 

[Dryce]

I did give you the heads up on this a few months ago, when everybody said ignore the penalty notices you get.

Ummm 'everybody' didn't say ignore.

My recollection is that there were perhaps one or two posters didn't get the fact that POFA 2012 had appeared and the consequential knock on effects.

 

[flango]

Ummm 'everybody' didn't say ignore.

My recollection is that there were perhaps one or two posters didn't get the fact that POFA 2012 had appeared and the consequential knock on effects.

OK "everybody" was a bit of a generalisation

 

[Dryce]

OK "everybody" was a bit of a generalisation

You should bne in advertising or politics

I think the parking companies are going to ramp up now and I suspect that pepipoo is going to be get a flood of misery coming its way.

For me it's just another minor disappointment in the way the UK conducts itself. I think that the politicians, civil service, and the judiciary are increasingly teasing themselves apart from the public as a whole. They just don't get certain things that they should get.

 

[flango]

Pepipoo is a joke I know lots of people who have taken advice from that site and have been stung far more aggressively in court than if they had employed the correct legal representation in the first place.

As regards parking it's just like speeding play by the rules and everything is fine. If you want to break the rules then you have to take the consequences that go with it, so overstay your welcome and it costs you £100

As the saying goes " If you cant do the time don't do the crime"

 

[Grey Area]

The punishments for most crimes, however, have a sense of proportionality about them. It's hard to adopt an "it's a fair cop" attitude to a £100 parking ticket. Well I find it's hard anyway

 

[renault12ts]

Pepipoo is a joke I know lots of people who have taken advice from that site and have been stung far more aggressively in court than if they had employed the correct legal representation in the first place.

As regards parking it's just like speeding play by the rules and everything is fine. If you want to break the rules then you have to take the consequences that go with it, so overstay your welcome and it costs you £100

As the saying goes " If you cant do the time don't do the crime"

That can be difficult on a day's shopping where you spend too much time shopping!

 

[flango]

The punishments for most crimes, however, have a sense of proportionality about them. It's hard to adopt an "it's a fair cop" attitude to a £100 parking ticket. Well I find it's hard anyway

Not sure about that? Take a level 3 fine in a magistrates court, level 3 fines go up to a maximum of £1000 and can be given for the following amongst others

Failure to notify change of ownership
Defective exhaust
Insecure load
dangerous parking

And there are examples of people being fined this maximum, proportionate?

 

[flango]

That can be difficult on a day's shopping where you spend too much time shopping!

That's called planning, if you have a doubt you will be longer than the allotted parking time then park somewhere else, if you are getting close to the parking time limit, return and move the car.

break the rules and get fined, simples

 

[nick mercedes]

I thought only courts could fine people?

 

[Dryce]

Not sure about that? Take a level 3 fine in a magistrates court, level 3 fines go up to a maximum of £1000 and can be given for the following amongst others

Magistrates court isn't paying third party to get 'jurisdiction' over their customers, is not attempting to profit from that jurisdiction, and has to hold itself to higher standards.

No equivalency to parking companies.

 

[Dryce]

I thought only courts could fine people?

Good point.

The issue with contractual law and the parking companies is that it perhaps sets a useful precedent to others who would like to unilaterally declare a contractual obligation of similar value.

I'm thinking of wearing a hat that says 'if you look at this hat then you owe Dryce £4.72 with a discount of £1.62 if you hand it over right now'.

 

[flango]

I thought only courts could fine people?

Good point.

The issue with contractual law and the parking companies is that it perhaps sets a useful precedent to others who would like to unilaterally declare a contractual obligation of similar value.

I'm thinking of wearing a hat that says 'if you look at this hat then you owe Dryce £4.72 with a discount of £1.62 if you hand it over right now'.

That all changed in 2011 with the introduction of CSAS, councils, NHS trusts and private sector companies can pay a fee of a few hundred pounds for Home Office accreditation via their local police force to fine people legally.

 

[markjay]

While I do not disagree that some parking companies use underhand tactics... we need to keep in mind that thanks to parking enforcement (both Council and private) we can all share and make use of the limited parking spaces available to us.

Without some form of enforcement, people WILL abuse the system, we know they will.

And the bold and cheeky and inconsiderate will have all the parking they want, while the polite and well-mannered will have nowhere to park... not to mention the disabled.

Yes, Tesco and Asda and all those other retail outlets do have a commercial interest in allowing as many shoppers to use their car parks, but just because it is in their commercial interest does not mean it is not in the public interest as well.