£25/day to drive in London...

[verytalldave]

the only way it to ban cars from going into london.
But there is no money to be made from that is there?
never mind that it will instantly eleiminate congestion in a day, what we have been trying to do for years.
Please no one should say it is not practical

With the technology thats in place now, it wouldnt be a problem to limit the number of journeys you are allowed to make into London in a car. Say, twice a week maximum during weekdays. Whether that could be workable I dont know, but its one possibility.

 

[st13phil]

The only REAL way to cure congestion is to disallow anybody to register a new car unless you scrap an existing registered car.

the only way is to ban cars from going into london.

I think you're both missing my point. If you remove the need to travel into London you remove the congestion. People don't drive into or across London because it's fun, they do it to go to work or to return home from work. How congested is London on a Sunday when most people are not travelling to/from work? It isn't congested is the short answer.

Th reality is that any vibrant, economically successful, city will suffer transport congestion of some form or another but that congestion is self limiting. Trying to manage it by forcing individuals to use different modes of transport is futile. The solution lies in reducing the need to travel in that area at all.

 

[BTB 500]

People don't drive into or across London because it's fun, they do it to go to work or to return home from work.

Not all car traffic in London is work-related - far from it. People drive in for shopping trips, meals, theatre, galleries, museums, taking the kids to/from school etc. All the same thing that less wealthy people who live outside London use their cars for during the week

 

[verytalldave]

I think you're both missing my point. If you remove the need to travel into London you remove the congestion. People don't drive into or across London because it's fun, they do it to go to work or to return home from work. How congested is London on a Sunday when most people are not travelling to/from work? It isn't congested is the short answer.

Th reality is that any vibrant, economically successful, city will suffer transport congestion of some form or another but that congestion is self limiting. Trying to manage it by forcing individuals to use different modes of transport is futile. The solution lies in reducing the need to travel in that area at all.

Take away that element of London and it would die. To remove the majority of the work and put them elsewhere would be economic suicide for everyone involved. Already a vast swathe of work has relocated to Canary Wharf and the Isle of Dogs. That has made a difference to the City if nowhere else. The City is now much less congested than it once was and Cannon Street station is now almost bearable.
So where exactly would you propose to move the work too?

 

[janner]

£25/day to drive in London...

No thanks! You'd have to pay me a lot more than that to spend a day driving in London.

 

[MBManInKen]

Where the revenue gained from the motorist is going certainly isn't on the roads, but from what I can see, it is going on public transport, in London anyway.

Is it? I live in Central London and I can't see that the god awful public transport services, which I use daily for my commute, have gotten any better. They might be spending a lot of money on it, it sure hasn't made it any better, quite the contrary.

Car ownership is increasing, so even with more roads, what happens when they become congested? Building new roads seems ambitious, especially when the standard of the roads as they currently stand is so poor.

Ahhhh, the motorist is a cash cow, people love their cars, this forum is testament to that. It takes a lot to get people to leave them at home.

Actually, I already leave it at home when I go about London. There is no point, you just sit somewhere in a jam, with an average speed of about 8mph it's just useless to drive into London unless you have to. So, I do commute by public transport.

Hitting us where it hurts might be the only way.

Well, not for me. I live in the zone, but I'm not going to stop using my car because of that idiot's 25/day charge. I wouldn't mind so much if these things would really work (i.e. ease congestion or avert climate change). As it doesn't achieve either, it's just another rip off that's being spun as something else. In the mean time, the real policy decision that need to be made aren't made and we all waste our time and money on these daft schemes.

 

[gbjeppm]

Well, not for me. I live in the zone, but I'm not going to stop using my car because of that idiot's 25/day charge. I wouldn't mind so much if these things would really work (i.e. ease congestion or avert climate change). As it doesn't achieve either, it's just another rip off that's being spun as something else. In the mean time, the real policy decision that need to be made aren't made and we all waste our time and money on these daft schemes.

I totally agree.

I also commute in every day, and have to say I have seen very few signs of improvement, the trains are still overcrowded, and not value for money. Although the Waterloo and City line does seem to break down slightly less than before its refurb.

 

[st13phil]

Not all car traffic in London is work-related - far from it. People drive in for shopping trips, meals, theatre, galleries, museums, taking the kids to/from school etc. All the same thing that less wealthy people who live outside London use their cars for during the week

I know, I used to live there But those examples are not the major cause of transport congestion. The first four represent discretionary journeys and you can (within reason) both pick your time to make the trip and even decide whether to make the trip at all. Travelling to/from work has to happen at fixed times - because employers demand that people work largely fixed hours - and the journey is not discretionary unless you don't want to keep your job.

Take away that element of London and it would die. To remove the majority of the work and put them elsewhere would be economic suicide for everyone involved.

Many companies have moved out of London and neither they nor London has died (economically or physically) as a result. It's surprising to most people who have never lived outside the south-east, but the daily commuter grind really isn't the only way that they can live their life, and that's a fact that to which many who live outside the area can attest.

Already a vast swathe of work has relocated to Canary Wharf and the Isle of Dogs. That has made a difference to the City if nowhere else. The City is now much less congested than it once was and Cannon Street station is now almost bearable.

My point exactly. Remove the need to travel where it's congested and the congestion - as if by magic - vanishes. No punitive taxes on individuals and no need to force people to change their mode of transport.

So where exactly would you propose to move the work too?

Surprisingly enough there is a great deal of land in the UK north of Watford Gap And much of it has uncongested infrastructure that allows the populace to move around with relative ease and be economically active. Even if some of them do have a funny accent

I know that some of what I've written may sound sarcastic, but it's not intended in that way. I do honestly believe that transport congestion (not just road congestion) in large cities is a fact of life that will never change regardless of what "measures" are used in an attempt to control it. I also believe that it is largely self-regulating because people who experience it daily have limits to what they will tolerate, and once they reach that limit they look for alternative places to live and/or work that get them out of the congestion. Having made the decision many years ago to get out of London and live/work elsewhere I also understand how impossible that looks to many people who currently live and work in London. But in reality, for the vast majority, it isn't impossible at all.

 

[ShinyF1]

I'm buggered with my E320 CDI - too old, engine too big....

....like the car too much to care. I live near a tube station!

 

[ShinyF1]

How congested is London on a Sunday when most people are not travelling to/from work? It isn't congested is the short answer...

....not the last time I was in Central London on a Sunday. Apart from the city, Sundays only represent a slight lightening of traffic density.

 

[BTB 500]

Travelling to/from work has to happen at fixed times - because employers demand that people work largely fixed hours - and the journey is not discretionary unless you don't want to keep your job.

The discretionary bit is using a car to do it though, rather than public transport.

 

[st13phil]

The discretionary bit is using a car to do it though, rather than public transport.

True. But that's pretty congested too, isn't it?

 

[Sorry Pete]

Re: post 126

Yes, I live in Central London too, and my take is that there is a discernable improvement in the transport system. I'm thinking here about the buses; new, clean, efficient. 24 hour night buses even to outer areas; that wasn't the case five years ago.

The tube, yes it's torture, always has been, but the trains are new, and the track is getting replaced. You've got to make a start somewhere, do you not?

Likewise, I use public transport and leave my car at home during the week, it's no fun sitting in traffic all day. My point is that for many people, £25 is going to be sufficient a deterrence to seek other means of getting about. For those that are suitably affluent, I'm sure it's not going to make much difference either way.

 

[verytalldave]

Re: post 126

Yes, I live in Central London too, and my take is that there is a discernable improvement in the transport system. I'm thinking here about the buses; new, clean, efficient. 24 hour night buses even to outer areas; that wasn't the case five years ago...............

So it should be for £2 a pop..........one of the most expensive bus services in the developed western world.
As for night buses...........there have been all night bus services from central London to Orpington (Kent) as long as I can recall. Takes an age and you do have some rather interesting fellow passengers at 3am..............

 

[Sorry Pete]

Hey, it's all relative, I used to live in Hong Kong. If your bus doesn't turn up within five minutes, people give the next poor driver verbal abuse! Cheap too. And the MTR (tube) is superb. I guess that's the difference of 100 years of engineering and 40 years of neglect!

 

[BTB 500]

True. But that's pretty congested too, isn't it?

Still perfectly useable, though obviously not as comfortable as a car.

 

[DITTRICH]

My commute from the isel of dogs to vauxhall takes around 1 hour on the tube yet if i drive it takes between 20-45 minutes. My tube route involves 3 changes and may or may not involve the jubilee signal failure line. in short the tube is a bloody nightmare and packed solid during the rush hour. i drive and park at work arriving calm and unflustered. i value the little comforts in life and getting into work in a stable frame of mind is quite important to me. yes it costs me money - more than the tube - but it is much less stressful.
Les

 

[BTB 500]

Of course, but if everyone drove for those reasons and nobody used public transport then there would be total gridlock.

 

[WLeg]

We live in Hertfordshire, and are a family of 4. Every Saturday we all take the eldest (14) to Floral Steet, for a Ballet class, and day out for our 4 year old. For us to go by train is about £40.00, including parking at our local station. To drive and park for 3 hours in Garrick Street (less than 100m from Covent Garden comes in at less than £25.00 - (parking £14.00, it is 30 miles each way).

Why would I get on a smelly old, train and tube/bus, if it takes longer costs more, and generally is not a nice place to be ?

If public transport were cheaper and nicer, I would consider it.

 

[Ade B]

We live in Hertfordshire, and are a family of 4. Every Saturday we all take the eldest (14) to Floral Steet, for a Ballet class, and day out for our 4 year old. For us to go by train is about £40.00, including parking at our local station. To drive and park for 3 hours in Garrick Street (less than 100m from Covent Garden comes in at less than £25.00 - (parking £14.00, it is 30 miles each way).

Why would I get on a smelly old, train and tube/bus, if it takes longer costs more, and generally is not a nice place to be ?

If public transport were cheaper and nicer, I would consider it.

No congestion charge on saturday, whilst I agree, if you fill a car with people, it is usually cheaper than using public transport, as a regular user of london public transport I don't agree that most trains, tubes and buses are either smelly or old.

In my case. Norwood Junction to London Bridge 9 mins by train, 25 mins by motorbike, 45-60 mins by car. Crystal Palace to Trafalgar Square (a current regular journey) 35 mins by bike, 35 mins by train, car, forget it..

London transport is actually pretty effective on the routes I take, was not always the case - I remember during rush hour full no. 73 buses passing full bus stops without stopping in Islington a few years back..

Ade