£25/day to drive in London...

[verytalldave]

The effects will be more far reaching than many have yet realised IMO. London is a big chunk of the UK car market. Big petrol engined cars that will now be very hard to sell in London will be shifted elsewhere in the UK. The extra supply will depress prices. So the effects will ripple out. Depreciation on big petrols is already huge but will no doubt be even huger.

While the very rich may be prepared to pay the £25 per day -at least to begin with- and may still go on buying new large Band G cars, the depreciation will eventually impinge even on them. Secondhand buyers of large petrols will be harder and harder to find. The congestion charge, the higher VED (and more of that to come), petrol at over £1 a litre, and social disapproval will gradually lead to a strong demise in the sale of Band G cars IMO.

Good news for diesels. For example even an S class 320cdi is only in Band F.

And the new BMW X5 is only Band F in diesel form. Time Merc did something about the Band G diesel ML.

I anticipated this very scenario last August which is why I bought a C200K. The next model up the chain (the C230K) slipped into band G.
So, as you say, it IS having an effect. Jaguars and the like I feel will drop in value like lead ballons, as will many, MANY other makes and models.
How one man can have such a devasting and catastophic effect is beyond reason and sense.

 

[Martin]

Assuming most agree the planet has a problem, how exactly do we make people including "ourselves" change their lifestyles, the type of cars they buy, the number of flights they take, etc without hitting them in the pocket or changing laws, like Ken has in London and I believe the Germans have also started city green zone charging schemes this year?
Persuasion clearly does not work because we all blame everyone else and think our small contribution will not make any difference........

 

[recycled]

when all the large cars have been sold, he will start to attack the smaller ones until he gets to the bicycles and then he will cough up another excuse.

 

[recycled]

think our small contribution will not make any difference........

It will not.
He has just given permission to rich people to drive in london and for poor people to get the heck out.
Now in a democracy where equal rights is preached this is unacceptable.
Where will it stop?
Emm you can not go to court unless you have 50k in your bank account.

if we really want to stop pollution, simply ban all cars over 225 g and not tax them.
We will then know he is really after sorting the pollution and not after money.

 

[poppypiesdad]

Looking at my V5's#
Polo twist 1.5 TDI 122g/km 2005
Nissan Patrol 3.0 tdi 288g/km 2005

but no data for
MB Vito 108cdi 2003
how is this classed as then???
Bit confused but glad I'm in scotland with the tolls off the tay and forth bridges

Pity i can't afford the fuel to drive over them for free

popps

(just thought is the vito a commercial )???

 

[recycled]

If you want to escape the congestion charge AND all VED payments buy an (expensive) VW Polo Bluemotion 1. Once registered, get VW to upgrade it to Bluemotion 2 specification. At least then you will get a spare wheel (which you dont get with a Bluemotion 1). Its all to do with getting it under the 100g/km limit. The Bluemotion 1 has a figure of 99g/km and the Bluemotion 2 has a figure of 104g/km. Just enough difference to kick in VED payments.
Its getting VERY silly.

and how long do you think it will take for them to catch up.
this is about money not the environment.
Remember leaded to unleaded
congestion to co2
all green gimmicks

 

[jeremytaylor]

and how long do you think it will take for them to catch up.
this is about money not the environment.
Remember leaded to unleaded
congestion to co2
all green gimmicks

Exactly.

I heard Red Ken quoted as saying today that the system would be 'fluid'. In other words if everyone jacked in their 'gas-guzzlers' for exempt cars, the exempt cars would have to start paying (in order to make the system work - profitable).

In other words it is nothing to do with the environment, just yet another tax. Plain and simple.

What confuses me is that Lexus 4x4 hybrids are exempt despite being:
1. Big 4x4s.
2. Having CO2 emissions that, for any other car, would make them pay £8/day.
I suspect Toyota see that Ken is alright come Christmas

 

[recycled]

come to think of it.
Since these cars are now worse than class A drugs apparently with the harm to the environment,
is it time to say. you can snort anything you want as long you can pay the government 50k a year. If you can not, off to jail you are going.

So you can drive any gas guzler you want and damage the environment as long as you can afford to pay £25 a day.
if you can not afford it. off you go.

 

[Martin]

Copy & Paste from BMW & MINI today........

Media Information

12 February, 2008

BMW and MINI customers beat new Emissions Related Congestion Charge in London

BMW 118d three- and five-door, MINI Cooper D and MINI Cooper D Clubman exempt from Congestion Charge
Diesel-powered BMW X5 and X6 owners to celebrate and save £4,335 a year
BMW X5 Sports Activity Vehicle cleaner than London black cab
Independent analysis shows BMW Group cut car CO2 emissions more than any other manufacturer in 2007
BMW and MINI’s market positions as the number one premium cars within their segments in London were strengthened today with the Mayor of London’s announcement of a new charging structure for entering the capital in a car.

New legislation that comes into effect in October means drivers of vehicles emitting less than 120g/km will be Congestion Charge exempt. Drivers of cars emitting between 120g/km and 225g/km will continue to pay the standard £8 a day fee, while those driving vehicles that record more than 225g/km will pay an increased daily charge of £25.

The change in charging structure means BMW and MINI owners will be financially better off than owners of other prestige cars. All MINIs and most BMWs will remain within the £8 threshold, but there was further good news for many BMW and MINI owners. The BMW 118d, the MINI Cooper D and the MINI Clubman D all fall into the new sub 120g/km Congestion Charge free bracket. This means that from October 2008 an owner of one of these models will save £2,040 a year driving in the capital compared to owners of non-exempt rival products.

BMW 118d three- and five-door, MINI Cooper D and MINI Clubman D exempt from Congestion Charge
Four of BMW Group’s most fuel efficient production cars of modern times have set a new benchmark courtesy of advanced engineering. The three- and five-door BMW 118d now record an impressive 62.8mpg on the combined cycle with CO2 emissions of 119g/km – putting it into the Band B category for Vehicle Excise Duty. The BMW 118d now costs just £35 a year to tax.

The 110hp MINI Cooper D and MINI Cooper D Clubman both better these impressive figures. The MINI Cooper D is currently BMW Group’s most fuel-efficient car recording 72.4mpg on the combined cycle and CO2 emissions of just 104g/km. The MINI Cooper D Clubman nearly matches these statistics recording 68.9mpg and 109g/km. Both cars are Band B in relation to Vehicle Excise Duty tiers and cost just £35 a year to tax.

All four vehicles employ technologies such as Brake Energy Regeneration, Auto Start-Stop and Electric Power Steering under the EfficientDynamics banner to help cut fuel bills and emissions. An optimum gearshift change indicator is included to encourage economical motoring. These innovations are in addition to high-precision direct injection engines on some models that further aid engine performance.

Jim O’Donnell, Managing Director of BMW (UK) Ltd, said: “While other manufacturers might claim to be environmentally-friendly, it is BMW who has followed through on its promise to lower CO2 emissions. Instead of producing one-off models or the odd concept car BMW has introduced EfficientDynamics across almost all of its range in 2007.

“No other manufacturer comes close to BMW in terms of combining the benefits of good fuel economy and low emissions while at the same time offering improvements in output and performance. This position was backed up recently in Autocar, who stated that BMW and MINI combined cut CO2 emissions in 2007 by nearly as much as all other manufacturers combined. Quite an achievement.”

Diesel-powered BMW X5 and X6 owners celebrate and save £4,335 a year
The BMW X5 3.0d and 3.0sd are now the only conventionally-powered vehicles in the segment with automatic transmissions as standard with CO2 emission figures that fall below the 225g/km band for Congestion Charging. The X5 3.0d has a CO2 emission figure of 214g/km, while the sportier twin-turbo X5 3.0sd posts a 216g/km figure.

The introduction of new legislation means the owner of a new diesel-powered X5 will save £4,335 a year in Congestion Charge fees compared with rival, non-hybrid Sports Activity and Sports Utility Vehicles. The low emissions rating for the X5 3.0d and 3.0sd also qualify it for Band F instead of Band G Vehicle Excise Duty, saving owners a further £95 a year. This benefit is set to increase to £190 a year from 1 April 2008 when the VED charge for Band G cars increases. The cost savings for X5 owners are considerable as diesel-powered models account for 95 per cent of annual UK sales.

The BMW X6, the world’s first Sports Activity Coupé, is another model from the BMW line-up to slip under the 225g/km threshold for Emissions Related Congestion Charging in London. The BMW X6 xDrive30d and the X6 XDrive35d have CO2 emissions figures of 217g/km and 220g/km respectively. Despite boasting rakish looks and on-paper specification and handling akin to a sports car, BMW’s EfficientDynamics technology ensures that these exciting high-performance diesels remain in the £8-a-day charging tier.

Cleaner than a London black cab
By comparison the latest diesel-powered BMW X5s emit less CO2 than the Mayor of London’s preferred means of transport, the black cab. While the X5 3.0d and X5 3.0sd emit 214g/km and 216g/km respectively, the very latest LTI Vehicles TX4 2.5 produces 233g/km. By contrast the biggest selling BMW X3, the 2.0d automatic, produces just 178g/km.

It’s a similar story with regard to fuel consumption. On the combined cycle the X5 3.0d achieves 34.9mpg compared to a black cab’s 32mpg. The X3 2.0d trumps this by recording 42.2mpg. The X5 covers 9% more miles per gallon and emits 8.2% less CO2 than the black cab while the X3 covers 32% more miles per gallon and emits 23.6% less CO2. The average owner of a BMW X5 will do less than 10,000 miles a year, while the average London black cab will cover considerably more.

BMW Group cuts car CO2 emissions more than any other manufacturer
Independent research* has revealed that BMW is the manufacturer which cut its UK new car CO2 emissions the most between 2006 and 2007. Figures show that BMW and MINI together managed to slash CO2 emissions by 48,496 tonnes in a 12-month period following the widespread introduction of EfficientDynamics measures on its cars.

To calculate the figures researchers took the average CO2 of each manufacturers’ models offered between 2006 and 2007 then multiplied that number by the number of cars sold. The resulting figure was then multiplied by an average annual mileage of 10,000 miles per car to calculate the overall CO2 figures and the savings.

In stark contrast to the efforts of the BMW Group some rival manufacturers actually increased their CO2 output during the same period.
*Autocar, 6th February, 2008

Ends

Note:
As of 27 October 2008 a new Emissions Related Congestion Charge will apply to all cars entering London. The following outlines the charging criteria:


Bands A and B 100 per cent discount (£0). Includes cars in Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) Bands A and B (up to and including 120g CO2 per km) which also meet Euro 4 air pollution emission standards.
VED Bands C, D, E and those in F with emissions up to 225g CO2 per km, as well as those registered pre 2001 with engines up to and including 3,000 cc, will continue to pay exactly the same daily charge as at present - £8.
VED Band G and equivalent vehicles (above 225g CO2 per km), as well as those registered pre March 2001 with engines larger than 3,000 cc, will pay £25 a day.
Discounts and exemptions:

VED band A will be eligible for a 100% discount for vehicles with the lowest CO2 emissions. This will replace the existing Alternative Fuel Discount. Drivers already registered for the Alternative Fuel Discount would continue to receive the discount until January 2010, unless the vehicle changed ownership.
The current discounts and exemptions for Blue Badge holders and Taxis & Licensed Private Hire Vehicles would be unaffected by these proposals.
Under the Congestion Charging NHS reimbursement scheme, eligible claimants are reimbursed the £8 daily charge. This scheme would continue for the £8 standard daily charge; however those drivers of Band G vehicles would only be eligible for £8 reimbursement rather than £25.

 

[recycled]

ken does not care. He will just go round that by charging the number of tyres on the car

 

[verytalldave]

Exactly.

I heard Red Ken quoted as saying today that the system would be 'fluid'. In other words if everyone jacked in their 'gas-guzzlers' for exempt cars, the exempt cars would have to start paying (in order to make the system work - profitable).

In other words it is nothing to do with the environment, just yet another tax. Plain and simple.................

This is a very important point, and often overlooked. It IS mainly about revenue raising. He admitted that tonight on TV.
If the truth be told, there is not one bone in his body thats green. They are all bright red. I could rant on further but I feel I would be preaching to the converted............

 

[Mudster]

If Boris gets in will he reverse this legislation? I doubt it. Has he said?

Whatever, I'll be making a special trip into town to see if I can vote for Boris on principal. I genuinely like the guy and find him refreshing compared to any other politician.

Behind the bumbling idiot exterior is a very intelligent man.

 

[Mudster]

Actually I very rarely drive into town, I generally get a train when I have meetings up there, I'm by Gatwick it's simply so much easier.

On the odd occasion I do drive in it's an evening or weekend so all this really doesn't seem to have any relevance to me personally.

I does however bug me that this is a thinly disguised tax and really has very little to do with environmental as described in the posts above.

 

[verytalldave]

Whatever, I'll be making a special trip into town to see if I can vote for Boris on principal. I genuinely like the guy and find him refreshing compared to any other politician.

Behind the bumbling idiot exterior is a very intelligent man.

You are correct. Almost.
Unfortunately he doesnt seem to be intelligent enough to say the right things at the right time and give himself at least a fighting chance of getting elected.
I really do genuinely fear that Ken will get re-elected yet again. There ARE enough mentally challenged out there to scribe their cross against his name come the day I fear. God help us all.

 

[CMR]

Ken unfortunately is now a law unto himself. Anyone who watched the recent Channel 4 TV programme 'dispatches' about Ken and the GLA will know this. Unfortunately what is happening in London may well happen very soon in other towns and cities, so my advice would be is to enjoy your ride while you can before you are put in a similar position to us down here. I won't even start on how I feel about what is happening here - particularly small businesses, only to say those of you in London will have the opportunity to vote (May 1st I thin) so please don't waste it even if you think it won't count.

 

[Martin]

So far nearly everyone has said this is nothing to do with the environment, just yet another tax but as always nobody has really offered any practical alternatives which will make any major difference to motorists behavior in the near future without making us pay!!! I guess the truth we don't like to hear is there are no alternatives.......... apart from doing nothing and leaving the problems to future generations.

 

[frog1520]

The new charge will affect me, so I'm not impressed with it at all.

However, in a race between Boris & Ken, I'd vote for Ken every time. Ken clearly has a grip on london issues - he always has a very impressive performance at mayor's question time. I don't think Boris is even in the same league to be honest.

 

[hawk20]

The cost savings for X5 owners are considerable as diesel-powered models account for 95 per cent of annual UK sales.

.

I have said on a number of occasions that diesel engines are gradually taking over, but this figure is pretty amazing.

 

[hawk20]

Assuming most agree the planet has a problem, how exactly do we make people including "ourselves" change their lifestyles, the type of cars they buy, the number of flights they take, etc without hitting them in the pocket or changing laws, like Ken has in London and I believe the Germans have also started city green zone charging schemes this year?
Persuasion clearly does not work because we all blame everyone else and think our small contribution will not make any difference........

Well it would help if the car-makers got together and did something before being forced to do so. They could give up the childish and harmful arms-race on horsepower, which already provides power way beyond what any can sensibly need on today's overcrowded roads. They could agree to phase out all car engines over 3 litres. They could agree to a sensible limit on top-speeds, something well below the 155 limit that Mercedes tried to get them all to follow.

Failing that, politicians could ban the sale of cars with emissions over 225g/km after a fair warning period of say 3 years. Would it really matter much if they did? The S320cdi would still be legal and big enough surely?

 

[recycled]

So far nearly everyone has said this is nothing to do with the environment, just yet another tax but as always nobody has really offered any practical alternatives which will make any major difference to motorists behavior in the near future without making us pay!!! I guess the truth we don't like to hear is there are no alternatives.......... apart from doing nothing and leaving the problems to future generations.

i have offered an alternative.
Totally ban the gas guzzlers from the city and do not tax them.
It was done in oxford and everyone is happy