‘Fence’

[clk320x]

We have recently acquired a property where currently the garden fence is around 4-5ft high, it’s a very old fence and is pretty much knackered.

I’m not sure who owns the fence and this isn’t listed on the deeds.

The garden is an odd shape, essentially there is a fence to the rear and one to the right.

On the right side there is a retired couple who have lived there since the 90s (I believe).. and the previous owner of this property was also an older gent who was their friend.

The guy who lives next door is generally rude and very nosey, you cannot do anything in the garden without him offering his opinion and privacy is zero.

He also has erected a shed at the back of his garden, which has windows looking directly into our garden, he opens these wide and the windows actually stick over the existing fence into our garden.

I would like to put up a 6 or 6.5ft fence around the perimeter to offer privacy & security.

The 6ft/6.5ft fence would block the windows of the shed, I don’t see how this could be avoided, and perhaps the windows could be relocated.

We let him know of my intention, to which he replied that it’s illegal to put up a 6ft fence and that he would ask the council to remove it etc. I explained the rules that up to 2m requires no planning permission.

I also decided that I would put the fence on my side of the boundary leaving the existing ones untouched to prevent any issues (although IMO it would look neater for him to just have 1 new fence and ditch the current old/damaged one).. Also we are still not sure who owns the old one as he has never gone this far into the conversation as he simply repeats the same thing again and again.

The other day a few people from a fencing company visited to measure up the garden and provide me a quotation, the couple next door were peering over the fence (as always) and got quite confrontational to them asking what work they were planning to do and explaining the same thing that 6ft high fence are illegal etc.. (I must add every other house on the road has a 6ft+ fence )… they were actually shouting ‘you’re not allowed 6ft’ again and again..

I’ve attached a photo of his ‘shed’… the windows open up directly into my garden and he often stands in there looking through.
I must add, it’s not my intention to cause any unnecessary issues - but I would like to improve the look of this garden (which hasn’t been touched for years), and part of that involves putting up a nice neat boundary fence. I also strongly feel that privacy is very necessary for anyone using the outdoor space.

Please advise.

 

[ChrisEdu]

Just burn down his shed!

 

[DSM10000]

We have recently acquired a property where currently the garden fence is around 4-5ft high, it’s a very old fence and is pretty much knackered.

I’m not sure who owns the fence and this isn’t listed on the deeds.

The garden is an odd shape, essentially there is a fence to the rear and one to the right.

On the right side there is a retired couple who have lived there since the 90s (I believe).. and the previous owner of this property was also an older gent who was their friend.

The guy who lives next door is generally rude and very nosey, you cannot do anything in the garden without him offering his opinion and privacy is zero.

He also has erected a shed at the back of his garden, which has windows looking directly into our garden, he opens these wide and the windows actually stick over the existing fence into our garden.

I would like to put up a 6 or 6.5ft fence around the perimeter to offer privacy & security.

We let him know of my intention, to which he replied that it’s illegal to put up a 6ft fence and that he would ask the council to remove it etc. I explained the rules that up to 2m requires no planning permission.

I also decided that I would put the fence on my side of the boundary leaving the existing ones untouched to prevent any issues (although IMO it would look neater for him to just have 1 new fence and ditch the current old/damaged one).. Also we are still not sure who owns the old one as he has never gone this far into the conversation as he simply repeats the same thing again and again.

The other day a few people from a fencing company visited to measure up the garden and provide me a quotation, the couple next door were peering over the fence (as always) and got quite confrontational to them asking what work they were planning to do and explaining the same thing that 6ft high fence are illegal etc.. (I must add every other house on the road has a 6ft+ fence )…

I’ve attached a photo of his ‘shed’… the windows open up directly into my garden and he often stands in there looking through.

I must add, it’s not my intention to cause any unnecessary issues - but I would like to improve the look of this garden (which hasn’t been touched for years), and part of that involves putting up a nice neat boundary fence. I also strongly feel that privacy is very necessary for anyone using the outdoor space.

Please advise.

Just do as you have planned.

Print off the regulations regarding fence height etc and give copies to anyone who objects and thinks that they know the law.

In my experience people who state "I know the law" very rarely do.

A copy of all the boundaries bordering your property may also be useful before proceeding.

Your fencing contractor should be able to advise and help you if experienced, possibly even explain to your neighbours that the fencing project is completely within the planning constraints.

 

[DSM10000]

Just burn down his shed!

Action today!

 

[clk320x]

Just do as you have planned.

Print off the regulations regarding fence height etc and give copies to anyone who objects and thinks they know the law.

In my experience people who state "I know the law" very rarely do.

A copy of all the boundaries may be useful before proceeding.

Your fencing contractor should be able to advise and help you if experienced, possibly even explain to your neighbours that the fencing project is completely within the planning constraints.

Thanks David,

I have a copy of the title deeds showing the boundaries etc, but none show who is responsible for a boundary/fence etc.

What about his shed windows? I think that’s his main concern… well that & not being able to have a nosey look over the fence…

The fencing guys tried to explain but they simply ignored what they said & kept repeating that 6ft isn’t allowed.

 

[ChrisEdu]

Action today!

Actually, just burn down his house!

Thanks David,

I have a copy of the title deeds showing the boundaries etc, but none show who is responsible for a boundary/fence etc.

What about his shed windows? I think that’s his main concern… well that & not being able to have a nosey look over the fence…

If it crosses the boundary, you can cut off anything encroaching, as long as you offer it back.

 

[DSM10000]

Thanks David,

I have a copy of the title deeds showing the boundaries etc, but none show who is responsible for a boundary/fence etc.

What about his shed windows? I think that’s his main concern… well that & not being able to have a nosey look over the fence…

If his shed or part thereof encroaches on your property then you are within your rights to ask him to stop that behaviour although that might prove to be another issue you do not need to deal with.

Your fence will neatly sort that out.

Which fence do we own?

In England and Wales, there is no presumption that a person owns or must maintain a fence or other boundary barrier on the left or on the right. Ownership of the boundary is normally determined by the builder who erects the buildings. Modern buildings will usually have a detailed Transfer Deed...

www.land-search-online.co.uk

Actually, just burn down his house!

If it crosses the boundary, you can cut off anything encroaching, as long as you offer it back.

Note :This doesn't apply to human tissue.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Perhaps there were no boundary fences when the houses were built and so boundary responsibilities don’t appear on the deeds.

In any case, even if it was illegal, I can’t imagine the council taking down the fence, and if they did then surely there would be an invoice to pay.

I would pop round again, explain that you willl be wrrrcting a new fence which will be an improvement on the old one, and which will be consistent with the rest in the street.

I would offer the choice of leaving the existing fence in place or allowing your contractors to remove it, but either way a new 6ft fence will be erected along the boundary.

 

[Smart320]

Will regularly spaced gun turrets along the length come under ‘ permitted development’ I wonder ?

 

[ChrisEdu]

If his shed or part thereof encroaches on your property then you are within your rights to ask him to stop that behaviour although that might prove to be another issue you do not need to deal with.

Your fence will neatly sort that out.

Which fence do we own?

In England and Wales, there is no presumption that a person owns or must maintain a fence or other boundary barrier on the left or on the right. Ownership of the boundary is normally determined by the builder who erects the buildings. Modern buildings will usually have a detailed Transfer Deed...

www.land-search-online.co.uk

Note :This doesn't apply to human tissue.

Well, he shouldn't stick 'it' though the glory hole then!

 

[Dickster]

I’ve had a similar issue. My advice is to put everything in writing to your neighbours. The selllers pack when you bought the house should have indicated who was responsible for the fence.

In our case, after living in the house for ten years, our neighbour said the sellers pack was wrong and we were responsible for the fence. After much thought we obliged, as I think it’s much better to have “control” of the boundary. There’s no obligation to maintain the fence and your neighbour can’t touch it without your permission.

Good luck!

 

[ioweddie]

Just grow some different tall shrubs against the existing fence....Gorse has nice sharp spines against his shed...Laural....Box Private etc around the rest...will deaden the noise...look better than a fence and encourage wild birds into your garden

 

[st13phil]

I also decided that I would put the fence on my side of the boundary leaving the existing ones untouched to prevent any issues

Personally I would be cautious of doing that as at some point in the future the lower original fence obscured from your view by the new taller fence could ‘disappear’ and cause further confusion as to the location of the boundary. I have a neighbour who is in that very position, with someone now claiming that the true boundary isn’t ‘correct’ based upon the location of the fencing erected inside it. They’re wrong, of course, but won’t back down and it’s causing my elderly neighbour a great deal of stress.

 

[st13phil]

We let him know of my intention, to which he replied that it’s illegal to put up a 6ft fence and that he would ask the council to remove it etc. I explained the rules that up to 2m requires no planning permission.

The rules are normally as you state, unless varied by a restrictive covenant. For example, on a development near me built in the early 2000’s there is a covenant that requires planning permission to be granted for the erection of conservatories that anywhere else would not require permission. Many house owners on that development fell foul of it because they were told by the companies supplying conservatories that permission wasn’t needed, with some subsequently having to remove their new structure.

If you're sure there’s no such covenant on your property - and it is unusual for there to be one - I’d suggest writing to the local Planning Dept. saying that you intend to erect a 6ft fence on your boundary but your neighbour on the other side of the boundary is insisting that this would be illegal, and asking that they confirm the position. Once they write back confirming there’s no issue you can wave their advice under your neighbour's nose. You will also have written proof should they be stupid enough to start a formal dispute.

 

[DSM10000]

The rules are normally as you state, unless varied by a restrictive covenant. For example, on a development near me built in the early 2000’s there is a covenant that requires planning permission to be granted for the erection of conservatories that anywhere else would not require permission. Many house owners on that development fell foul of it because they were told by the adze supplying conservatories that permission wasn’t needed, with some subsequently having to remove their new structure.

If you're sure there’s no such covenant on your property - and it is unusual for there to be one - I’d suggest writing to the local Planning Dept. saying that you intend to erect a 6ft fence on your boundary but your neighbour on the other side of the boundary is insisting that this would be illegal, and asking that they confirm the position. Once they write back confirming there’s no issue you can wave their advice under your neighbour's nose. You will also have written proof should they be stupid enough to start a formal dispute.

In addition to the above very good advice if you purchased the property then the soliicitor who handled this would know of any covenants.

 

[BigJase88]

My neighbour is also a nosey bugger. So i stuck up a 6ft fence. He has now placed a breeze block on his side of the fence and stands on it to peer over.

Weirdo

 

[fourwheels]

I would be wary of erecting a second fence inside the original one. Isn’t there something about a 12 year rule?
We had something similar with two fences about 1metre apart (with tree stumps between) running down the righthand side of our garden. The right hand side of our garden is actually split between two bungalows but many years ago when we were on holiday the second bungalow removed the fence on their side and extended their garden 1 metre towards ours!
Nothing we could do. Job done and the best advice was accept it.
We then spent time and money ensuring that the 1st bungalow didn’t do the same. We had effectively been using that 1 metre strip so we employed the 12 year rule and re established the boundary with the Land Registry.
Good Luck
i should add that originally there was a gate in that inner fence allowing us access to that I metre strip

 

[poormansporsche]

I have nothing practical to add but good luck with it all. A new house is stressful enough without having to deal with nutters. Not just the fence but hope it all goes well. Hopefully you being strong in the first instance will get him to keep his big nose out of your business !

 

[chic0821]

I’d suggest writing to the local Planning Dept. saying that you intend to erect a 6ft fence on your boundary but your neighbour on the other side of the boundary is insisting that this would be illegal, and asking that they confirm the position. Once they write back confirming there’s no issue you can wave their advice under your neighbour's nose. You will also have written proof should they be stupid enough to start a formal dispute.

This is the way to go. Keeps everything right & no come back from your pal next door.
Or knock it down in the middle of the night & blame the local neds

 

[optimusprime]

You need to check up on this before you go a head . Thing is the guy next door will need to have room to repair his shed.Thats if he needs to replace a window, re roof it, or to paint it . So if it was me i would put a fence up 4 feet away from his shed 6 foot high thats if you want to . Thats for a rear gardens .