124 300te 4matic Whine under load

Discussion in 'Engine' started by brucemillar, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Eek. This started today.

    When going up hill or accelerating from a standstill (so putting a bit of load on the car) I can hear a distinctive whine. It sounds a bit like belt whine. It will only do it under load. As soon as I lift of the pedal the noise stops dead.

    It does sound sort of similar to when the cat went on my C55. As always it will not do it with the car stood still. Is there anything silly that springs to mind?

    FYI: I did have a check underneath and do not see anything caught up or being dragged.

    I also checked belt tension (about half an inch of play) and gave it a squirt of belt dressing.
     
  2. carat 3.6

    carat 3.6 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Check the oil level in the rear diff, and the propshaft center bearing for wear. :dk:
     
  3. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    You might try the front diff oil level at the same time. Check also that the hydraulic fluid level is up to the mark in the reservoir..
     
  4. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Cheers guys. I will have a check for diff oil and prop shaft.
     
  5. jaymanek

    jaymanek Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    Deffo sounds like diff... Just had mine refurbed. Only difference is that you have two!
     
  6. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Update.

    Took the car into WrightTec this morning.

    Andy got it up on the ramps and checked front & rear diff oil levels. Front was a little low and was topped up. Rear was spot on.

    Checked for any play or obvious problems with prop or drive shafts - nothing found.

    It does do it with the car stationary, although not as obvious, just more difficult to hear. It starts about 3000 rpm. You have to blip the throttle and you get it for a split second at 3000 rpm.

    Belt is fine with no wear and is nicely tentioned.

    ATF level is fine and a nice red colour.

    It does seem to be more of a pulley/belt sound. Best described as the whine that you used to get with dodgy supresors and old car radios. Or as if something is rubbing against the engine fan.

    Looks like I will have to wait for it to get worse and more easily located. I am thinking it could be alternator or pulley(s).

    I could remove the belt? but as it is so diffilcult to reproduce when stood still that may not prove much at this point. It is definately at it's loudest when under load i.e. going up a steep hill.

    We also looked at all heat shields and anything else that could vibrate or rub. There is no diff noise and the wheels rotate with no noise. However all of this is without any load.

    This started very suddenly as the wife went up the hill onto the QE2 bridge. I was hoping that we would find some debris caught up underneath.

    Does anybody know what fuse 11 is for in the engine bay. Diagram says Carburettor electrics. Are there any carb electrics. SHould there be a fuse in position 11? I ask as when I was cleaning the car up I replaced ALL the fuses with new ones and cleaned all the contacts. Fuse 11 was not there when I did this. I bunged in the correct rated fuse (according to the diagram)

    Stumped ??
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  7. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    I wonder if the hydraulic pump supplying the 4MATIC hydraulics is a bit worn. It will be driven off the front poly V belt. Give it a "bit of work" then it may protest slightly or the wear may be obvious at certain rpm's? "Watchful waiting" is probably your next move?
     
  8. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    FUSE 11 seems to a "general purpose" fuse which has a variety of roles in different models. I have seen it described in the USA as feeding the alarm, 1986-92 or transmission oil cooling 8a or A/C control module 15a in later models. On European carburettor equipped cars there are several electrical connections at the carb vent solenoid,choke housing and shut off valve so their supply would be fused by no 11. If you have a fuel injected car then the fuse in position 11 would not be required.
     
  9. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Grober

    Hmmm. This afternoon I had to go into reverse - This immediately gives me the sound, on the flat or not. So now I know that I can re-create the noise in reverse. If anything it does seem louder in reverse and could be coming up from the area of the gear shift. I am not certain of that as it is not easy to work it out when you are alone.
     
  10. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    This noise---- does it occur immediately when you select reverse or when you actually start moving and if so does it follow engine or road speed? One test that is easily performed is to throw that test/maintenance handle under the bonnet to the test position- this will disengage the 4wd system. If the noise disappears you may have a problem with the transfer box or maybe the front propshaft?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  11. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Thank you. I did as you suggested with no difference.

    The only other thing of note is that on a steep hill (like my drive) it starts at a much lower rev band.
     
  12. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Begins to sound as if you might have a main auto transmission problem but I would just be guessing without hearing the noise???
     
  13. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Grober

    I will try and record it for you.

    My Indie did mention a plastic bit on the bottom of the gearbox. I think he said it is there to protect the torque converter and it may be bent or rubbing??
     
  14. ss201

    ss201 Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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  15. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    Grober

    Well things took a turn for the worse today.

    Wife taking kids to school. Car still in two wheel drive (i moved the test switch last night). Wife has to stop at a giveway facing up a steep hill. Goes to pull away and has no drive ? tries moving into second - No drive. Rolls back, waits a minute drive is back.

    Car has been fine since despite me trying to get it to fail on steep hills. I have re-engaged the 4matic but that seems not to be an issue. I still have the whine.

    Going back to WrighTec in the morning. We will try and run it with the wheels off the ground. Baffled..
     
  16. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Still think its an autobox/ torque converter problem. Are you positive you have adequate fluid- when was the last time the internal filter was changed- Some folks skimp and drain the fluid only when its fluid change time. Eventually the filter which leads to the valve body gets choked.
     
  17. jaymanek

    jaymanek Authorised Forum Sponsor Authorised Forum Sponsor

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    This now definately sounds like a gearbox issue... classic symptoms.
     
  18. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    If its an early box the B2 PISTON may be failing. Here's a how to How to Replace Your Oil Cooler Lines but be warned its very doubtful you will have enough access to renew it in situ. Think your best bet is an auto transmission specialist familiar with these cars i.e W124. Don't let the 4 matic bit "phase " them---- the internals and operation of the 4 speed box are the same as normal 2wd boxes afaik. Its the transfer box and centre differential that are unique to the 4matic.
     
  19. OP
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    brucemillar

    brucemillar MB Club Veteran

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    It will be an early box. It is a 1985/6 car. FYI: I have some video/sound if you want to PM me your email I can send it to you.

    Thanks again for all the help and patience.
     
  20. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Right I have now had a chance to listen to the sound. Took a while to come through to my email account- perhaps due to the file size? Have listened half a dozen times-- even lying on my left side;) but perhaps due to overwhelming engine noise I am non the wiser sorry.:eek: I can only suggest as before an auto transmission or W124 specialist. Loss of drive usually signals a major problem with the autobox/torque converter I regret to say. Since this involves big money [ fortunately these 4speed hydraulic boxes can be rebuilt by specialists] its essential to get an accurate diagnosis if possible before taking lots of things to bits.

    ps what's the warning light on the dash row of warning lights below the instruments that's lit up
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011

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