13 year old robber beaten up ........

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In the US the 13yo may well have been packing,
the van occupants may well have been packing,
a street shoot out with stray bullets could well have been the outcome.

Being pushed off his bike looks polite by comparison.

Sometimes I appreciate being British where a thug can't throw a hundred knives a second in my direction..
That's quite possible and if you are trained TO USE a firearm, its part of the situation assessement.
The word "polite" is interesting because there is an expression "that an armed society is a polite society"!

As to repairing society mentioined above, a priority might be to pay for an expanded police force that is well compensated and not do "Cops on the Cheap"!
That is in fact a famous international assessment of an indefatigable flaw in the British character, "Do it on the cheap!"
Tuercas Viejas
 
That's quite possible and if you are trained TO USE a firearm, its part of the situation assessement.
The word "polite" is interesting because there is an expression "that an armed society is a polite society"!

As to repairing society mentioined above, a priority might be to pay for an expanded police force that is well compensated and not do "Cops on the Cheap"!
That is in fact a famous international assessment of an indefatigable flaw in the British character, "Do it on the cheap!"
Tuercas Viejas
I don't think the US has ever been accused of being polite.
 
I don't think the US has ever been accused of being polite.
No NOT in a UK manner for sure --They are a bit blunt by English standards and this Faulty Towers particular episode is THE epitome of many Americans , but you learn to deal with it with a certain British aplomb .
Don't forget the "waldorfs" :D :cool:
Tuercas Viejas

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Oh the big stuff!
Pull one of those out in a potential confrontation, and just the sight of the thing would be enough to scare off any miscreant.
A virtual cannon of a pistol.
A bit big for a "pistol packing 90 year old momma" with one strapped in her thigh holster!! :eek:
As bit of a true Colt story this.
As an apprentice in Gloucester back in 1963 and old guy called Lionel use to do general odd job work in the shop, like taking out waste oil, burn rubbish & boxes etc. An interesting old fellah who came to work in all weathers on a bicycle & was in his 90's & me being close to 16 years old. (It meant he must have been born around 1870)
I asked him curiously one day "Have you always worked here Lionel?
"No kid, I was soldier in the British Army, went in as a bugle boy at 14"
"Got sent to India & Afghanistan".

How was that, I asked?
I got him talking about life serving the Crown, marching columns, doing patrols etc, Then--- "You know kid I owe my life I reckon to a Colt 45".
I was assigned to my commanding officer who has been something in the American Civil War, & he had a Colt 45.
One day we got attacked by the "fuzzy wuzzies" and my commanding officer just on sat on his horse and dropped anyone one of 'em who came close...
Better than the Martinis we were issued with ! As few of us got killed in the attack , but not me, thanks to Colt !


Later I got thinking about the conversation.
A link well into the past because the American Civil War of the mid 1860's & that Colt would have been at least 50 years old!
A testiment to American gun smiths .
Here's your hand cannons & for those on the forum who aren't familiar with Colt products for defense .
Tuercas Viejas

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We had the 8 3/8” 629 and I could just about shoot it one handed, I loved it, I was quite accurate with it. Then my dad swapped it for the snub nose version and no chance, that was a handful!

I’d love to try the S&W 500, I can’t imagine what that must be like! Next time I’m in the US I want to try seek one out to try.

As much as the shooting I love the engineering of firearms. The Python was beautifully made and the Walther PPK was like a Swiss watch, an absolute jewel.
 
Nah, you want the Springfield Armory 1911 with the 14-round double-stack magazine.... ;)
Just had a look, look fabulous! If only we could still shoot them in the UK!
 
If you are caught with a gun in the UK, you face a life sentence.

If anyone remembers the problem of acid attacks a few years ago, they stopped because the rule is; if you get caught in possession of acid in the UK and have no reason for it, you face a life sentence.

We need the same for knives.
Get caught in possession of a knife, you face a life sentence
.
In your dreams maybe.

This bloke got a piddly 6 years.
Ealing thug caught hiding a shotgun when police raided Southall home

“Could”

And that’s why the 13 year old kid got a good hiding. 👍
 
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I really miss my pistol shooting here in the UK. Pre lockdown my Dad used to go over to Belgium to shoot a couple of times a month to shoot larger calibre stuff. I keep wistfully looking at the Colt catalogue as they bought back the Combat Elite Government a few years ago, i loved shooting that. That and the Smith & Wesson 629.
Sometimes in my old job I would go waste some lead of a lunch hour on the range (it was about 30ft from my office). As a manufacturer we had Section 5 permits so I would just sign something out of the armoury that was small calibre (typically 9mm or. 38) and fun.

If I'd had a particularly trying morning I would take a machine gun or an elephant gun out and vent my frustration on a poor piece of paper. A.600 nitro or .416 rugby going off soon makes you forget the petty tribulations of the day.
 
Sometimes in my old job I would go waste some lead of a lunch hour on the range (it was about 30ft from my office). As a manufacturer we had Section 5 permits so I would just sign something out of the armoury that was small calibre (typically 9mm or. 38) and fun.

If I'd had a particularly trying morning I would take a machine gun or an elephant gun out and vent my frustration on a poor piece of paper. A.600 nitro or .416 rugby going off soon makes you forget the petty tribulations of the day.

With a Section 5 you can shoot a 7.62 NATO L7....... great fun.
 
With a Section 5 you can shoot a 7.62 NATO L7....... great fun.
The company used to own Radnor range so we could shoot up to 40mm and 4km IIRC. We'd take a 7ft .50 bmg machine gun off a WW2 aircraft that we had and mount it on a static fire point and then use a bore scope to take shots at things. In the afternoon we'd try our hand at the trout in the small pools.... usually with limited success. Frankly we'd have had more success using one of the 40mm grenades we had but that did not seem very sporting.
 
I have one of these .... Pietta copy of the 1858 Remington .44 calibre black powder ... no licence required. Powerful enough and great fun ..... but the reloading can get tiresome.
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A guy on an American forum I'm a member of recently relayed his experience of sitting at a red light and a car pulling up next to him and and its driver pointing a gun at him. Only with a gun is that casual potential violence possible. If he'd reached for a gun - then we'd be one down on that forum.
 
A guy on an American forum I'm a member of recently relayed his experience of sitting at a red light and a car pulling up next to him and and its driver pointing a gun at him. Only with a gun is that casual potential violence possible. If he'd reached for a gun - then we'd be one down on that forum.
Yes threat assessement and reaction to it.
I can relate to this, possibly worse in an armed hold up, when I was doing the payroll suddenly looking up and facing a snub nosed , 38 !
Fortunately I did have the hidden upper hand ,except the attacker didn't know it . It turned out badly for the attacker.

The situation you cite I can relate to because several months after my incident I was watching a program on TV called "Security in the Metro Area" .
Venevision was doing a live traffic interview with passing motorists in the late evening rush hour. During the interview all being filmed & broadcasted with a TV camera crew, a young teen pointed a firearm at the driver wanting the driver' car. Shooting the occupants in the car, he stole it in front of the crew making his getaway in front of the nation LIVE!

A question for you ?
What threat assessment did the driver of that car take and what were his options, being few?

Returning to topic :- Granny gets attacked by young punks wantiing her mobility scooter.
Now I don't think there are many Grannies riding mobility scooters in Caracas , but such a thing is virtually unheard in the US because Granny is often packing pistol . Just knowing that possiblity is a deterent just by itself !
In a wider sense many people in the world think that the British are a nation of whimps these days.

But there is a deterent disuading factor for the most adventerous, and one aspect is that the UK citizenry as you know! It employs a large number of nasty thugs in uniforms that are armed!
Tuercas Viejas

Dealing with threat situations, one of many!
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A question for you ?
What threat assessment did the driver of that car take and what were his options, being few?

His assessment was that if he remained as he was he was in danger of being shot. Through his commendable spatial awareness he quickly assessed the traffic situation and floored it out of there and outdrove the gun toter.
He wasn't armed but even if he had been, on the first sign of going to draw a weapon, chances are he'd have been shot.
 
A thug says gimme your phone.

Here he may have a knife, it's a judgement call but fight or flight is feasible.
In the US if I have a gun it is likely in my pocket. Flight not an option. Fight, well he has the superior position.
If he perceives I have gun that I can use as he retreats he is better removing that threat while he can. Hopefully that would be "gimme your gun as well", but bang is less risk to him.

Why does owning a gun make anyone less of a whimp?
Over the years with my 5'7" 70Kg I've challenged one or two baddies, no weapons involved.
If I had a gun would that make me more brave?
 
First
Don't carry a firearm in your pocket that is scary.
Next I see from reading the posts on this topic everything is US focused, but I ask whatabout the rest of the Americas?
Now I understand that Brits often have a narrow minded approach to USA which is not always justified ......Overall the place is quite safe, often safer than big UK connurbations and in spite of the Right to Bear Arms (which Brits had several centuries ago) a large chunk of the US population are NOT that gun savvy anyway !.
Its just that you never know who is packing a concealed weapon like Granny & the mobility scooter --deterent enough!
What do you know about concealed carry from State to State and even gun ownership rules & regulations?

Now I cited an armed robbery /highjack of a car in downtown Caracas, where the occupants were shot during the robbery.
He made several mistakes, but the most glaring one was actually stopping to be a TV celebrity for a few minutes.
You simply don't stop in Caracas in late evening to talk to Venevision ,and shame on Venevision encouraging that!
(Mistake #2)i.e Risk Assessment

Now I mentioned an attempted robbery at gun point of my payroll of about 3 million Boliveres.

The assailant was stupid, I always had an active cop called Brujo (the witch) guarding the office from a concealed internal mini kiosk with a gun port.
A Browning saved the day!

What I suggest if any reader is interested in dare to compare in the Americas go to some of the Latin American news media.
First issue for most Brits, the impediment is that the UK doesn't speak Spanish fluently enough, because its not your national language nor does the UK media broadcast life & society news too well'
For info Argentina is up there with gun related crime, refer to Las Noticias de Argentina.
Brazil isn't much better perhaps worse, especially in the Favelas.
Venezuela my adopted country where I lived for years --now really bad with gun related crime.
AND then there's the Central Armerican states --anarchy

Welcome to the real American world, and its not the USA where at least you have a functioning armed police force and the rights to defend yourself !
Tuercas Viejas

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Aside from being specific on how a firearm should be carried, and demonstrating my total lack of knowledge on this, the point of any gun presenting an opportunity to injure / kill is missed.

Now I understand that Brits often have a narrow minded approach to USA
You did say you are an expat didn't you? That explains your doing irony.

Its just that you never know who is packing a concealed weapon like Granny & the mobility scooter --deterent enough!
Deterant, to be sure not to help the aged, or anyone in need, in case they misconceive the assistance and what may be blamed on senility sees you with a gun up yer snozzer.
Is it reasonable to expect a gun to be used correctly each time by Granny?
Is it likely they may fail an attempt at defence and provide a weapon to the assailant?

What do you know about concealed carry from State to State and even gun ownership rules & regulations?
Nope I don't live there.
The gun culture, the arms industry, isn't hard to appreciate.
I am aware that there isn't a unified approach to legislation.

You cite some lawless examples as though this justifies the US with it's high amount of gun deaths, that when I last looked murders exceeded the UK per head by 3x, if I remember correctly..

A figure I might give as accurate from 2018 is that the murder rate per head was 3.8 times that of the UK. Allowing for the vast rural regions of low population and so reduced occurrence that makes the cities pretty scary. As guns are the laziest way to see someone off I suggest they play the largest part.
The fact you are better than many of the South American countries doesn't really sell your greater safety to me.

It does beg the question as to where they source their supply of weapons.

Guns in the wilds are a recognisable need.
Guns in the cities for defence is an admission of the failure of law and order.
The shame is we are getting there too and resort to white vans.
 
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Aside from being specific on how a firearm should be carried, and demonstrating my total lack of knowledge on this, the point of any gun presenting an opportunity to injure / kill is missed.


You did say you are an expat didn't you? That explains your doing irony.


Deterant, to be sure not to help the aged, or anyone in need, in case they misconceive the assistance and what may be blamed on senility sees you with a gun up yer snozzer.
Is it reasonable to expect a gun to be used correctly each time by Granny?
Is it likely they may fail an attempt at defence and provide a weapon to the assailant?


Nope I don't live there.
The gun culture, the arms industry, isn't hard to appreciate.
I am aware that there isn't a unified approach to legislation.

You cite some lawless examples as though this justifies the US with it's high amount of gun deaths, that when I last looked murders exceeded the UK per head by 3x, if I remember correctly..

A figure I might give as accurate from 2018 is that the murder rate per head was 3.8 times that of the UK. Allowing for the vast rural regions of low population and so reduced occurrence that makes the cities pretty scary. As guns are the laziest way to see someone off I suggest they play the largest part.
The fact you are better than many of the South American countries doesn't really sell your greater safety to me.

It does beg the question as to where they source their supply of weapons.

Guns in the wilds are a recognisable need.
Guns in the cities for defence is an admission of the failure of law and order.
The shame is we are getting there too and resort to white vans.
I am curous what you interpret as an Ex Pat ,what do you mean by that ?
I am a naturalized citiizen of Venezula and have both UK & US citizenry holding three passports,
So is that an expat to you ?


OK, its clear you don't live in the USA from your post, but rather I assume you live in the UK which is a very small country by comparison, and is about the size of the State of Idaho.
If you knew more about US gun laws from State to State it might help you & many others to understand US society and areas of crime according to each State.
Now the UK is not then Gold Standard of safety & crime in UK society & in the western world far from it!
Knife crime stats are appalling for an advance post industrial country and attacks on the elderly is a particular nasty side affect of living in the UK .
Both a national disgrace.
Is that acceptable to you ?

Dare to compare this to Colorado where I live and have business.




Now I cited Argentina being about the same size as the UK with a 3rd less population.

I gave you a link to Las Noticias de Argentina which is an International / regional newpaper media outlet that can give you a lot of info on societies in the Americas.
I don't do as much business down there as I used to when my Venezuelan bus building business was in full swing .

In all honesty, I find it curious that Brits in particular after just ONE visit to the USA (usually Disneyland ) and conclude this is the USA when Florida is not a good example by which to judge the whole country upon let alone the rest of the Americas .

Which I suppose brings me to a final question have you ever visited any of the American countries I/We have discussed in these post exchanges ?
Tuercas Viejas
 
In the US the 13yo may well have been packing,
the van occupants may well have been packing,
a street shoot out with stray bullets could well have been the outcome.

Being pushed off his bike looks polite by comparison.

Sometimes I appreciate being British where a thug can't throw a hundred knives a second in my direction..

I can understand how this might be the opinion but in reality, it's quite the opposite here. I grew up in London and I was that kid that looked 18 when I was 13. I had 42" chest. 30" waist and it seemed like every plonker of all age and size wanted to have a go at me.

Here in Texas, people are generally more civil and I attribute much of this to the reality that people conceal carry. Nobody is going to randomly pick a fight with a stranger. If they do, there's a good chance it will end real quick and the concealed carriers will usually do everything possible to de-escalate and avoid the legal headache.

If you see violent crime in the news, it's usually isolated to certain neighborhoods and easily avoided (unless you live there) or in cities hat make it more difficult to legally own a weapon.

Below is a chart showing the downward trend of violent crime Since 1990. While I don't have stats on gun ownership, my gut tells me that there are a lot more in public hands today than in 1990.

As far as this young kid. That bit of tough love might have saved his life. He might not get a pass when he's 18.

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Hi,
We are so lucky to live in Abu Dhabi - right next door to a sports resort that has a great shooting range!
When we lived in Dubai - my son and I joined Sharjah shooting club and he did an intense shooting course - firing live .22 pistols & rifles - aged 8!
Whenever friends visit us from UK - we take them next door to Al Forsan shooting range to try out some of their weapons!
Here a few photos from a friends visit - his daughter is in these photos - it was the first time that she had shot a pistol and she did really well!
Also in one photo you can see a pair of really nice .44 magnums that you can shoot there!
E716E825-B70A-431C-8EBD-A5D5946BE322.jpeg4193EFC0-32AF-423A-A171-AEE540C09A97.jpeg37483DCD-6681-4192-9B5E-D9BBE4676828.jpeg
Cheers
Steve
 

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