190 16v kerb weight?

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wemorgan

MB Enthusiast
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A205 C220d
Does anyone know the kerb weight (inc. fluids) of the 190 16v?

Some Google references tell me the base 190 was 1170kg and that the 16v ~25kg heavier? This seems rather light to me.

Is this true?

Thanks.
 
It's a bit more than that Will, but not by loads :)

Figures I have are:-

2.3-16 - 1230kg (1984?)
2.3-16 - 1260kg (September 1985)
2.5-16 - 1300kg (October 1988)

Standard 190 was listed at 1160kg and a 190E at 1170kg back in October 1989

And one standard 190 model was listed at 1080kg back in the early days (pre-facelift, September 1983)

All of these are official figures from original MB data sheets :thumb:

The main reason why the 2.5-16 is listed with a heavier figure is mainly because it has a higher standard spec - rear headrests, ASD diff etc. The exhaust is slightly larger bore but other than that they are very similar.

Spec of course (electric seats, air con, autobox) add quite a fair bit of weight.

Standard interior etc weighs a considerable amount - MB seats are quite heavy!

Will
 
Thanks Will, helpful stuff.

That 1080kg variant is very impressive for such a large car :)

A recent PH report on the E30 M3 @ £15k makes the 190 seem like decent value, as there are some tidy 190 cars available for ~£3k still.
 
Yep - you're right, the W201 16v cars are great value compared to E30 M3s, considering that the Mercedes of that era was quite a bit more expensive new!

If you bought a decent usable 2.3/2.5-16, stripped it, prepped it and took it on track days I reckon you could have a lot of fun for the fraction of the cost of an E30 M3 :thumb:

Even with circa 200bhp and weighing in at 1300kg or therabouts, the 190Es make good use of their power and have a nicely setup chassis. Also a good base for a modified project as these are tough cars designed to perform :D
 
Thanks Will, helpful stuff.

That 1080kg variant is very impressive for such a large car :)

You are forgetting that cars have got fat in recent years. Many cars used to weigh in at a tonne or even less.
The 190 isn't large.
 
You are forgetting that cars have got fat in recent years. Many cars used to weigh in at a tonne or even less.

True, though my similar generation MX5 was ~1050kg. But then my BX was similar again.

It's difficult to find a front engined RWD ~800kg car that also has a modern suspension setup - kit cars excluded.
 
True, though my similar generation MX5 was ~1050kg. But then my BX was similar again.

It's difficult to find a front engined RWD ~800kg car that also has a modern suspension setup - kit cars excluded.

A 1982 BX petrol was 885kg and a 19TGD was 986Kg and uses front and rear subframes and hydraulics, which adds to the normal mass of a car that doesn't.
A Ford Sierra 2.0i Ghia weighed 1095Kg.

I don't see the 190 being lightweight, but cars have now got too heavy. Small cars now weigh more than large executive cars used to.

If you want something lightweight and quick, get an AX GT.
 
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If you want something lightweight and quick, get an AX GT.

15 years ago I drove a 1.0 Debut non-stop, except for fuel, a 1000 miles to Italy. 3 up with luggage and at 6'2 I was the smallest person. We all need an E-class with roof boxes these days. Granted, the AX in that state was neither quick nor comfortable. ;)

AX - nice idea, but not RWD though.....
 
15 years ago I drove a 1.0 Debut non-stop, except for fuel, a 1000 miles to Italy. 3 up with luggage and at 6'2 I was the smallest person. We all need an E-class with roof boxes these days. Granted, the AX in that state was neither quick nor comfortable. ;)

AX - nice idea, but not RWD though.....

Is RWD really necessary now? Understeer is set in deliberately for safety but a light FWD can still be made to oversteer if required.
A stripped out BX-16v would be pretty quick and light and in standard form has more Bhp per tonne than a 190-2.3.

As Colin Chapman said..."Just add lightness".
 
Both good cars and similar performance 'stats' in standard form - but I guess it depends on what you're after?

One of the beauties of a 190E 16v is that it has an excellent chassis setup and can comfortably handle more power than standard - it was after all 'de-tuned' to quite some degree as a road going car. The W201 was the first MB to use the 5-link rear suspension and the 16v model also has SLS at the rear and an LSD.

Aside from that, they are mechanically very strong and easy to work on, with excellent parts availability. Just look at how many W201s are still on the road today :cool:

Not sure exactly how they weigh in comparatively, but from what I can find out the 16v model BX was around 1050-1060kg with 160bhp - so around 200kg lighter than the RWD 190E but then the Cosworth engine produced 180-200ish bhp so power to weight would be very similar :)

Horses for courses, but if the OP is looking for something with RWD, fairly good chassis setup and enough power for a bit of fun a 16v 190E is surely worth a look :thumb:
 
Not sure exactly how they weigh in comparatively, but from what I can find out the 16v model BX was around 1050-1060kg with 160bhp - so around 200kg

Horses for courses, but if the OP is looking for something with RWD, fairly good chassis setup and enough power for a bit of fun a 16v 190E is surely worth a look :thumb:

Absolutely agree.

The reason I mentioned a BX-16v is that the suspension really does help with cornering, they are reliable, but above all were designed to be strong but light so have an instant track advantage.
I think by stripping such things as seats, carpets, window glass, door cards, etc, sub 800Kg could be on the cards.
I used to drive my mates and it was QUICK and heaps of fun, especially after a big end melted at 140mph wrecking the crank so in went a replacement MI-16 engine which was tested at 165 Bhp with no mods at all.

A customer changed his Porsche 944 for one as it was quicker mid range.

Unsung Heroes : Citroën BX | AROnline

If I had the inclination and did track days I'd buy this, just for fun.

Citroën BX TC4 Evolution - 1986 For Sale on Car And Classic UK
 
Good luck in a crash with an old 'lighter' car...

I'd rather have overweight and much safer personally.
 
Will, have you considered a 924? I seem to recall seeing a race one stripped down to 800 and something kg with alloy panels etc. Whether the Beetle suspension is modern enough for you I don't know, but it is at least independent. You'd be stuck with the Porsche drivetrain options more or less, unless you were prepared to cut the tunnel for a more forward mounted gearbox. Just a thought.
 
Will, have you considered a 924? I seem to recall seeing a race one stripped down to 800 and something kg with alloy panels etc. Whether the Beetle suspension is modern enough for you I don't know, but it is at least independent. You'd be stuck with the Porsche drivetrain options more or less, unless you were prepared to cut the tunnel for a more forward mounted gearbox. Just a thought.

Not seen any 924 so far, but a few 944, especially the S2 variant with the 3.0 4-pot engine - they're more like 1200kg though.

924 are tantalisingly cheap though - makes me wonder.
 
Not seen any 924 so far, but a few 944, especially the S2 variant with the 3.0 4-pot engine - they're more like 1200kg though.

924 are tantalisingly cheap though - makes me wonder.

And quite a bit lighter I think. What do you have in mind engine wise? The 3.0litre from memory has the 16 valve head that can suffer from problems with a cam chain tensioner. The 8 valve turbo is good for 240-250hp and is a pretty simple single cam motor. A non Porsche engine transplant could be tricky. Apart from the gearbox issue, the engine bay is quite cramped and the steering column has to be cleared. Are you looking for something just about ready to run, or a rolling chassis to which you'd add a drivetrain of your choosing?
I suppose the FWD cars converted to RWD (for rallying) eg Pug 205, are ridiculously priced - or wrapped around a tree!
 
Completely left field suggestion - a kart!
Gearbox chassis will have discs at the front, and not being tied to race class capacity limits a larger, torquier (eg 500cc motocross) engine can be fitted. An absolute blast! Even on a 'car' circuit, a kart with decent power shouldn't feel slow. Depends on local circuit rules I guess - and whether such a thing has any appeal to you. I'd love one!
 
Thanks, but I think a Lotus 7-esque car is as kart like as I'm looking for :)

Also, 2 seats can be convenient - driving coach for track days for instance.
 
Thanks, but I think a Lotus 7-esque car is as kart like as I'm looking for :)

Also, 2 seats can be convenient - driving coach for track days for instance.

Ahhh.. Back to Pistonheads for you then!
 

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