3.2 M104 with ITB's

carat 3.6

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That car is on the 190rev forums, and they are m5 throttle bodies.
Here is a better pic, and also a pic of the carlsson c37 engine which also used them:D
 
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d w124

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I wonder how they would perform on a standard c36 engine?
Well:The bhp did not have much increase but the torque was another story though
 

carat 3.6

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Well:The bhp did not have much increase but the torque was another story though
Might be a upgrade for me at a later date, if I convert to efi that is. I have seen set's of m5 itb's go for as little as 300 pounds on ebay, and I'm sure I read somewhere that the port spacing is nearly the same?
 

d w124

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Might be a upgrade for me at a later date, if I convert to efi that is. I have seen set's of m5 itb's go for as little as 300 pounds on ebay, and I'm sure I read somewhere that the port spacing is nearly the same?
Seen them go even for less but :D Don`t like to have anything to do with BMW on my car though
 

d w124

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It would be a reasonable way to more power though, without spending a small fortune on something like jenveys or similar.
If I can get my saloon running 300 hp,I`d be a happy man :thumb:
 

carat 3.6

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Niks

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You'll have to fabricate an adapter to fit the ITB unit to the engine, including its own custom gasket/seal. Its a hell of a job but there are people doing it who have the knowledge. I believe Roman (pumpish on youtube), otherwise known as Turbo Bandit has made an aluminum intake manifold for the M104 engine (ready to buy), which the BMW ITB's will bolt directly onto.

Trouble is, someone who has actually done something like this needs to report gains or losses in bhp/torque/mpg figures/reliability and so on to make it a worth while modification for others to do. Otherwise it would be just pointless and a waste of time, would be cheaper to add a supercharger or turbo instead.

I was on the phone to Carlsson in germany for an whole hour talking to a guy who worked in the development process of the M104 3.7 engine. Two engine types were available, first being the 3.6 running the standard MB inlet manifolds and the second 3.7 running the ITB setup which cost an extra 14,000 DM at the time. This engine had extensive modifications to the interior than that of the AMG 3.6. Alot of the data has now been lost since they stopped production of the C37, so it was only the guys who worked on these cars remember from memory what the modifications were.
 

Charles Morgan

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I am considering putting throttle bodies and a slightly more racy cam on my little BMW 02, and I would be happy if the combination gave me another 30bhp maximum, as that makes a lot of difference on a little car. With that though the mod is entirely reversible, and the map on the car would be adjusted to take account of it all to get the most out.

I would be quite wary of having a mod that had to be welded on, and how would one get the most out of it with an engine that is not set up to be re-mapped? Lots like a lot of cost to me.

Incidentally, adding a turbo / supercharger would most probably be a very expensive job. Not if you are going a tried and tested route, but if custom I was quoted about 10k for my BMW as the garage, correctly, wanted me to understand getting it right and OEM takes a very long time.
 
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carat 3.6

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You'll have to fabricate an adapter to fit the ITB unit to the engine, including its own custom gasket/seal. Its a hell of a job but there are people doing it who have the knowledge. I believe Roman (pumpish on youtube), otherwise known as Turbo Bandit has made an aluminum intake manifold for the M104 engine (ready to buy), which the BMW ITB's will bolt directly onto.
Making the adapter is'nt too much of a problem, I would have to go custom anyway as I have the m104.980 head so off the shelf upgrades are non existant!

The tuning afterwards would be the biggest expense.
 
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Charles, I looked on the net and it seems a lot of people who own modified 02's have gone down the road of ITBs. This makes it a lot more easier in terms of knowing others have done it and have set the car up properly, so more resources are available to you for reference.

ITB's seem good for better bhp figures at the higher rev range, so you will lose torque on the lower end. If im not mistaken, this was the difference with the BMW M5, you had to rev its nuts off to get the power. Mercedes had the higher torque available in the lower rev range with its longer intake pipes.

Carat, for any of the M104 engines it will have to be a custom job. Its worth browsing the W202 forums as some guys who own C36 AMGs have done extensive custom supercharger and turbocharger upgrades. I think the main problem they had was how much boost they can run on a 3.6 as its compression ratio is already high at 10.5.1. Adding more boost on that compression ratio apparently keeps blowing MB headgaskets unless you can fabricate a slightly thicker one made from copper. This will ensure a good seal all round the engine and prevent any oil leaks from the front or the rear of the engine, with the advantage of handling boost much better for the long term.

Having said that, a guy in the US (Street Power Magazine, April '97) twin turbo'd his C36 with rebuilt heads, pistons and other bits. He managed 561bhp using the stock block and compression ratio 10.5.1. running 8 psi boost. Not sure how long that engine lasted for though.

Anyways, everyone has different needs and requirements. Personally I share the same sentiments as Dash, 300bhp will do me just fine just as long as it keeps me infront of those damn 2.0 turbo diesels! :)
 

Charles Morgan

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Oh yes, plenty of 02 aftermarket ITBs around. I don't think I'll be going this loud, but I like the style!
 

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Charles, I looked on the net and it seems a lot of people who own modified 02's have gone down the road of ITBs. This makes it a lot more easier in terms of knowing others have done it and have set the car up properly, so more resources are available to you for reference.[/QUOTE]

Torque curve is a function of the cam and map more than the type of injection setup. Replacing single-point injection with ITBs, all other things being equal, shouldn't reduce the torque

I think aftermarket injection and ITBs on an M104 are great ideas in principle. But I think it'd take a huge amount of work to make either (or both) better than the standard setup

Nick Froome
the independent Mercedes Estate specialists
 

wemorgan

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Similar games are played with MX5's. It's interesting and fun, but naturally quite expensive. Even with ITB, cam profiles, ignition timing, rpm increase, porting/polishing, ECU, the cars are mostly < 100bhp/litre.

I think someone has put a Honda S2000 engine in a MX5 which gives him 120bhp/litre. I guess it's easier to justify such swaps on cheap MX5 rather than more classic cars.
 

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