300CE 24V how to gain more power.

ninaandphil

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Hi all, having lost out on a Turbo Technics kit on Ebay, and not having deep enough pockets to pay the higher prices asked elsewhere, or for that matter buying another complete car.... I was hoping for any suggestions on how to get more HP for less bucks!
I have a 300CE 24V engine, (with distributor) and a supposed 60K, fitted just before I bought it. All working fine except for an occassional stall when stopping hard from speed, probably need to clean the idle control valve for that?
Also has an irritating repetitive squeaking which has got worse over the last year, comes from somewhere around the v belt area, but I just can't pinpoint it, noise is high pitched and changes pitch in time with the engine.. doesn't appear to be the belt itself though. Must have a mouse on steroids in there somewhere!
Any help greatly appreciated....:doh:
 

Eddie01

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Hello

Just a little off topic, could you post up the link to the ebay add for the Turbo Technics kit please.
 

Eddie01

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Yes I guessed it was sold I was just wanting to see the link or find some more information about the kit.​
 

James1976

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just checked as I was watching it but I've deleted it from my watch list :doh:

New aswell.

Not sure how much you can get form these engines - I checked some time ago, peach parts etc have articles on it. I think the consensus is they were relatively well maximised when new; however, it was the base for the AMG 3.6 versions from recollection so that could be a route to go!
 

kth286

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to get more performance for nil cost, you can make the car lighter by stripping out all the stuff that creates weight.

Seats, sound insulation, heat insulation, under bonnet insulation, spare wheel,
body trim, door panels, etc etc.

Then make the car more aerodynamic.

Thinner wheels with low drag tyres, aero body appendiges such as front spoiler etc etc

Then pay attention to engine area, by fitting air restrictors in front of rad, use thinner oil, replace cooling pump with an electric one that only operates on demand etc etc.

Before you do all that, please note down before and after figures for both performance and economy.

Let us know how you get on.
 

carat 3.6

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Hi all, having lost out on a Turbo Technics kit on Ebay, and not having deep enough pockets to pay the higher prices asked elsewhere, or for that matter buying another complete car.... I was hoping for any suggestions on how to get more HP for less bucks!
I have a 300CE 24V engine, (with distributor) and a supposed 60K, fitted just before I bought it. All working fine except for an occassional stall when stopping hard from speed, probably need to clean the idle control valve for that?
Also has an irritating repetitive squeaking which has got worse over the last year, comes from somewhere around the v belt area, but I just can't pinpoint it, noise is high pitched and changes pitch in time with the engine.. doesn't appear to be the belt itself though. Must have a mouse on steroids in there somewhere!
Any help greatly appreciated....:doh:

The sqeaking you mention is going to be a bearing in one of the pulleys, or the water pump. Pop the belt off and see if you have play in any of the pulleys. ;)

It depends how good you are with spanners and how much money you want to spend to get power out of your engine. But to give you an idea of what is possible, I fitted the same engine as you have in to my car (a w124 saloon), and with about £850 in parts and me doing the work it now puts out around 270hp.

What sort of money do you want to spend?
 

carat 3.6

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Spill the beans, what did you do to release those horses?

K & N panel filter, c36 bottom end conversion, modified exhaust system, ignition timing advancement, mixture richened slightly, larger air inlet duct.;)

This car is also a manual, but this was an earlier conversion.
 
OP
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ninaandphil

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Hi Carat 3.6..... Currently spending somewhere between £200 & £500 per month on the project.. depends on the demands of the wife and kids of course! Seen you're response to Martyn_n, and £850 over two or 3 months isn't too bad, so what would you recommend first, lots of questions really, like how did you fit a panel filter when the existing filter box takes a pentagonal shaped one... did you fit a different box, how did you modify the bottom end etc... Mine is also a manual by the way.
This month I've just finished dying all the interior carpets, restoring a set of black leather electric seats which I've replaced the green (yuk) originals with... now waiting for a wiring loom from German ebay for the passenger side seat, which originally wasn't electric! (will have to figure out how to make it work)..
Sorry to ramble, I guess I should start a thread and add some pics.. Next month i'll be having a go at vinyl wrapping, so it'll either look the bees, or like it's had a massive attac of the tin worm!
regards to all.
 

RBYCC

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K & N panel filter, c36 bottom end conversion, modified exhaust system, ignition timing advancement, mixture richened slightly, larger air inlet duct.;)

This car is also a manual, but this was an earlier conversion.


Curious to how you achieved about a 50HP increase with the work you performed.
Even with a TurboTechnics kit installed on the M104-24V CIS-E motor, it will not dyno anywhere close to 270HP you claim without major changes to the electronic enrichment control and a few other tweaks.

You're indicating about the same published power level as a C36 with minimal upgrades compared to the AMG 3.6 engine.
 

Martyn_n

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Curious to how you achieved about a 50HP increase with the work you performed.
Even with a TurboTechnics kit installed on the M104-24V CIS-E motor, it will not dyno anywhere close to 270HP you claim without major changes to the electronic enrichment control and a few other tweaks.

You're indicating about the same published power level as a C36 with minimal upgrades compared to the AMG 3.6 engine.

Apart from the cam profile what he has is virtually an AMG 3.6 engine anyway, the exhaust and air filter will account for little extra bhp and the fuelling / ignition mods are what was required to get it to run satisfactorarily. I think what he has done is a far better solution than forced induction, but if I were to do it I'd just drop in a C36 engine rather than mate a head from one engine to the block form another.
 

RBYCC

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Apart from the cam profile what he has is virtually an AMG 3.6 engine anyway, the exhaust and air filter will account for little extra bhp and the fuelling / ignition mods are what was required to get it to run satisfactorarily. I think what he has done is a far better solution than forced induction, but if I were to do it I'd just drop in a C36 engine rather than mate a head from one engine to the block form another.

With all due respect, I must disagree.
He's not matching the AMG displacement, compression ratio, cams and of course CIS-E which is less tunable then the HFM.
The C36 published numbers ( USA market ) was 276HP / 284 torque.

If he has established via dyno pulls then it would be nice to see the dyno chart so as to better understand the profile of the power curve.

Change of air filter gives about nil power increase on a normally aspirated engine. :thumb:
 

Ian B Walker

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If it has an air pump, disconnect it and junk it. Blank off the pipe going to the cylinder head from the pump and de cat it. Then you are back to near on 231bhp
 

d w124

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Dash

That kit at 671 sterling was an incredible buy !!!!
Even when Hughes sold their NOS inventory in 2007 they fetched 1000 sterling !!!

Ed A.

Yes and the only reason I did not have a go at it is because a friend of mine was going to :wallbash:
 

carat 3.6

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Hi Carat 3.6..... Currently spending somewhere between £200 & £500 per month on the project.. depends on the demands of the wife and kids of course! Seen you're response to Martyn_n, and £850 over two or 3 months isn't too bad, so what would you recommend first, lots of questions really, like how did you fit a panel filter when the existing filter box takes a pentagonal shaped one... did you fit a different box, how did you modify the bottom end etc... Mine is also a manual by the way.
This month I've just finished dying all the interior carpets, restoring a set of black leather electric seats which I've replaced the green (yuk) originals with... now waiting for a wiring loom from German ebay for the passenger side seat, which originally wasn't electric! (will have to figure out how to make it work)..
Sorry to ramble, I guess I should start a thread and add some pics.. Next month i'll be having a go at vinyl wrapping, so it'll either look the bees, or like it's had a massive attac of the tin worm!
regards to all.

Some easy mods to start with are to fit a k&n panel filter, remove the resonator and if you have one the cat from the exhaust, cut away the inner edge of the air intake scoop where it sits proud of the radiator.

These will get you some more power as well as letting the engine rev more freely. The filter is part no: E-9179, and as shown below it is a direct replacement for the original part.

Next step would be an exhaust back box from either remus or supersprint, both make a high quality part that is an exact fit to the w124, but they are expensive new so lookout for them on ebay. OR you could get someone like powerflow to make a custom system to fit your car if you want to spend a bit more money. I have modified a remus back box from a tdi golf to fit mine. (paid a tenner for it!:))
 
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carat 3.6

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With all due respect, I must disagree.
He's not matching the AMG displacement, compression ratio, cams and of course CIS-E which is less tunable then the HFM.
The C36 published numbers ( USA market ) was 276HP / 284 torque.

If he has established via dyno pulls then it would be nice to see the dyno chart so as to better understand the profile of the power curve.

Change of air filter gives about nil power increase on a normally aspirated engine. :thumb:

I have no acess to a rolling road or dyno so my power figure is made by the fact that my car will easily keep up with and in some cases out-acelerate my freinds c36.

Since my car use's a stock c36 bottom end mated to a cis m104 head, it has kept the c36's 3606cc capacity and 10.5 compression ratio.

An early uk spec 300e-24 has 231hp as it has no cat or lambda sensor, this means I only have to gain 35 ish hp to get to 270. Amg themselves built a 3.4 version of this engine with 272hp, mine has an extra 200cc plus the other mods to the car, infact all I dont have is the camshafts.

The real power dose seem to be fairly high up the revs at around 4500+ rpm, and my car is not as smooth and quiet as the c36 is. I know that the hfm on the c36 gives it more tourqe, but the manual gearbox in my car makes up for that.

It has certainly livened up the car, and that was all I was looking for.

The next mod is going to be a daul snorkel air box and larger throttle body.

BTW The hughes turbo technics conversion of the m104 is rated at 335hp not 270hp. :thumb:
 
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Martyn_n

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With all due respect, I must disagree.
He's not matching the AMG displacement, compression ratio, cams and of course CIS-E which is less tunable then the HFM.
The C36 published numbers ( USA market ) was 276HP / 284 torque.

If he has established via dyno pulls then it would be nice to see the dyno chart so as to better understand the profile of the power curve.

Change of air filter gives about nil power increase on a normally aspirated engine. :thumb:

Firstly, I hate the term "With all due respect" it makes it clear you have no respect for my comments at all, and you know better.
Secondly, he IS matching the AMG displacement (It has the same bottom end)
Thirdly, I stated that he did not have the cams.
And finally I think I said the exhaust and filter will give little improvement.

Surely all "respectable" comments.
Moan over.
 

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