300ce amg.

[John Jones Jr]

*sighs*


By your understanding, all cars went back to Affalterbach for work? [/URL]

For the third time, the seller is saying the car came from Affalterbach (the factory) as seen in the advert!

 

[PhilJ]

Advert says this:

"For sale a beautiful example of the extremely rare Mercedes 300CE 3.4 AMG. This car is one of only 25 cars ever produced and benefits from having a very high specification which includes the recaro seats together with momo AMG steering wheel as well as an alcantara headlining finished in black.
The car comes with 3 keys and a very thick folder of bills and receipts for maintenance work carried out over the years.
A unique opportunity to own a very rare appreciating asset"

No mention of any factory.

You asked him if it was original, and he says it came from the factory like this, did he say specifically the Affalterbach factory? Or just the factory?

As we've already established, the car is most likely a Japanese import, and was for sale on ebay less than a year ago, it is now up for more money so clearly for sale by a trader. I've just provided evidence that Japanese cars did not travel to the factory.

What's the likelyhood this trader doesn't know the cars history? Or enough AMG history to realise that, very rarely would any car go to the factory. Chances are he either thinks the same as you, every AMG went to AMG, or he was referring to the AMG dealer who fitted all the parts.

 

[d w124]

FFS,stop running round in circles.What a lovely car,the only problem is that is not on my drive
Who the f*ck cares where it was made,bar the pedals and the red bits it looks nice

 

[bing]

I did say from the outset the arches are not like the known genuine AMG widebody panels, but as I’ve said there is nothing to suggest that was or wasn’t an AMG Japan thing. They did they’re own things, as did the ‘muricans. Hence how does anyone here know for sure?

Just because it isn’t THE AMG widebody, doesn’t mean it wasn’t done by AMG. I’m not saying it was done by them, I’m saying you can’t be 100% sure it wasn’t.

Ok what you're saying here is that possibly there were 2 types of widebody kit on offer for AMG 124 CEs , be it japan or germany, but no one knows for sure , right?!

FFS,stop running round in circles.What a lovely car,the only problem is that is not on my drive
Who the f*ck cares where it was made,bar the pedals and the red bits it looks nice

+1 FFS !

There's so much discussion of this early AMG stuff on the inter web, wide body this, pre/post factory that, 3.4/5.0/5.4/5.6/6.0L that, SOHC/DOHC this, AMG Japan/North America/UK/Affalterbach that and so it goes on and on .The whole thing gets beaten to death everytime a car like this comes up for sale. Rarely anyone has a definitive answer. I mean has anyone actual posted or seen a pre-merger Sales Catalogue to see what was on offer back then ? I sure would like to see one. I don't take any of it as gospel anymore. Even Car journalist/Magz are inconsistent .

Bottom line, If you're willing to invest in one of these much discussed AMGs, make sure it has proper documentation and that indeed it's the real McCoy. I wouldn't even listen to the usual dealer and internet talk , 'only 25 made, only 10 in the country" malarky. If you must and to assure yourself do your own research by going directly to the factory. That's if they entertain you of course.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Bottom line, If you're willing to invest in one of these much discussed AMGs, make sure it has proper documentation and that indeed it's the real McCoy. I wouldn't even listen to the usual dealer and internet talk , 'only 25 made, only 10 in the country" malarky. If you must and to assure yourself do your own research by going directly to the factory. That's if they entertain you of course.

+1.

 

[PhilJ]

Here’s how I see it. A nice car pops up. Then Niks (for some unknown reason) is very quick to knock it, turning assumptions into fact.



“That car is a genuine 3.4 AMG but at a much later stage was converted into a widebody by its owner - this conversion was privately done and had nothing to do with AMG themselves and never came from factory like that. M104.980 engines only ever came in the pre-facelift cars so this one has obviously been face lifted at a later date when the widebody conversion was done. Recaro seats were installed at a later date too by a company in Japan who referb's Recaro Classics and CSE's. I guess you have all figured out it is a Japan import that was sold on JPC Trade for around £9k - now been tremendously inflated to £25k in hope that some poor sod turns up thinking its a real hammer and buys it.”


I merely pointed out that not a single point from the above paragraph can be proved. It is all an assumption based on looks. It might not even be the same car.


“I mean has anyone actual posted or seen a pre-merger Sales Catalogue to see what was on offer back then ?”


I have, I’ve also seen what was done on a large number of AMG cars first hand over the years and they don’t always match due to the variants in dealers across the world. Car mags have always been inconsistent, still are.


Funnily enough I’ve been to affalterbach for a factory tour, and they have no records of anything at all. Short of an original bill of sale (Japanese rarely keep paperwork) there is rarely any “documentation” to prove it is an original AMG. The way you tell if it is an AMG is by checking what is on the car with brochures and part numbers. Engine blocks and cam shafts are stamped, bodykit, wheels, suspension and seats are all pretty obvious.


Yes if you have the original bill of sale it might be worth more, but the chances of that happening realistically is very slim. Have a read of the thread I posted a link to, it’s a good read, but ends up in bickering as well, funny that. There is a reason I haven’t got 3000 posts in 2 years.

 

[BillyW124]

i want to do a wide body on mines...

but the whole rear qtr pulled out

 

[Niks]

"I merely pointed out that not a single point from the above paragraph can be proved. It is all an assumption based on looks"

So, Phil your saying a single point cant be proved on that car, you make it sound like AMG Japan is a conspiracy. So your basically saying the M104.980 cant be proved that it only existed in prefacelift cars and that it carried on till 1995? It cant be proved that AMG converted a 1991 car into a facelift model when facelifts didnt even exist until 1993?? I wonder if the Japs invented a time machine and travelled to the future and stole the facelift headlights, headlamp panels, bonnet and grille from MB and went back to 1991 to put it on the car - hmm yes def cant be proved.

I think my point is proven.. it NEVER left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means AFTER it had rolled out of the factory.

Not having a dig, but I was knocking the seller for selling it at 25k when its not even worth that - just like when everyone bashed the same seller for selling the E60 AMG for £110,000 or thereabouts!

Anyways end of discussion. Like I said, it is a nice car and I hope it goes to a good home somewhere at the right price.

 

[bing]

Funnily enough I’ve been to affalterbach for a factory tour, and they have no records of anything at all. Short of an original bill of sale (Japanese rarely keep paperwork) there is rarely any “documentation” to prove it is an original AMG. The way you tell if it is an AMG is by checking what is on the car with brochures and part numbers. Engine blocks and cam shafts are stamped, bodykit, wheels, suspension and seats are all pretty obvious..

Agree! Then the whole discussion becomes whether documents are important or not ...

Have a read of the thread I posted a link to, it’s a good read, but ends up in bickering as well, funny that. There is a reason I haven’t got 3000 posts in 2 years.

Yep , precisely my point !

And no thanks I think I'll skip that read from Benzworld.

Cheers, Phil !

 

[PhilJ]

Billy, I will have some copies of genuine AMG C124 wide arch panels and widebody skirts soon. 3D scanned and made in carbon fibre or fibreglass. Give me 3-6 months.

This is actually getting comical! It really can go on forever, you’re clearly not the most logical of thinkers, or maybe you can’t/won’t read. So I will repeat myself, again….

“Could have been done at a later date, or even by AMG if the customer asked for it. The Japs like to make things look newer, just like the number plate tarts in this country who need their 15 or 16 plate car.”

You’re forgetting that owners could add what they wanted, when they wanted it, as I’ve already said, a few times. So if a new grill came out a year later, why is it not plausible that it could have been added afterwards? Ah, because in your mind cars were only “done” when new - which just plain isn’t true. Anyone could have bought a 3 year old car to be AMG’d.

“I think my point is proven.. it NEVER left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means AFTER it had rolled out of the factory.”

Still zero proof. Still assumptions with no basis other than pictures from the internet. Aside from possibly having the same steering wheel you can’t even say it is the same car for definite. Just like the Recaros. Oh there is a shop in Japan that sells them, so they’re definitely not "factory". What kind of logic is that!?

Still unsure as to what/where this mythical AMG Japan factory is. Cars were built by Yanase (the japanease dealer) to order. Some engines came from Germany, some didn't. No one knows. Feel free to prove me wrong.

If I remember correctly, that E60 wasn’t just an E60, it was an E60 limited. One of 7 (ish) actually built by Affalterbach and it’s sold now. Since it is sold, maybe it wasn’t too expensive? Since when are you the AMG valuer? If I remember rightly, that car went to south america.

 

[Niks]

“I think my point is proven.. it NEVER left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means AFTER it had rolled out of the factory.”

Still zero proof.

Jesus Phil... there were no facelift cars in 1991

 

[PhilJ]

Ok, to summarise, the original owner could never of AMG’d it in ‘91 (or later) and put the bonnet on in ’93 (or later)? Clearly they had to of put the bonnet on at the same time as the AMG conversion, because that obviously is the only possible scenario as to why that car has a facelift bonnet on.

That CE hammer that went for 100k had an sec bonnet conversion, can’t have been a "factory car"

The Recaros can’t have been fitted at the time of the AMG conversion, because a shop in Japan sells them.

The arches can’t have been AMG because it’s not the same as the other ones and they never did anything out of the book.

The owner is a lying bull****ting c*nt who deserves lynching because he thinks its a factory car, not only that but hemakes a living trading cars and you don't like the prices they are going for.

Your logic is flawed and I’m going to withdraw from this conversation forthwith on account that I suspect you may have learning difficulties.

 

[John Jones Jr]

From your general tone, rhetoric and defense of both the car and seller, one could be forgiven in thinking you actually know the trade seller. May be you've sold him AMG parts, sold the Recaro seats without the correct door cards or you're in the process of building a similar car and hoping to flog it for £25k too.

 

[bing]

Ok I couldn't resist this... but this is where you guys are:

Lets roll play Nik says Phils says, shall we ?

Nik says....

i think my point is proven.. It never left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means after it had rolled out of the factory.”

Phil says....

still zero proof. Still assumptions with no basis other than pictures from the internet. Aside from possibly having the same steering wheel you can’t even say it is the same car for definite.

Nik says....

jesus phil... There were no facelift cars in 1991

Phil says....

“could have been done at a later date, or even by amg if the customer asked for it. The japs like to make things look newer

Nik says.....

i think my point is proven.. It never left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means after it had rolled out of the factory.”

Phil says....

still zero proof. Still assumptions with no basis other than pictures from the internet. Aside from possibly having the same steering wheel you can’t even say it is the same car for definite.

Nik says....

jesus phil... There were no facelift cars in 1991

Phil says.....

“could have been done at a later date, or even by amg if the customer asked for it. The japs like to make things look newer[

Nik says...

i think my point is proven.. It never left the factory like that as the seller claims! It was a conversion the owner did sometime after 1993 which means after it had rolled out of the factory.”

Hmmmm....Keyword is FACTORY, then perhaps you can break the circle , chaps!

 

[maggot]

Three way UFC style Battle Royal for 'charridy' ! Winner gets a big badge made by my four year old nephew that says "I won an argument on the interweb' !!

 

[d w124]

May be you've sold him AMG parts, sold the Recaro seats without the correct door cards

There is no such thing as correct door cards for recaro seats

 

[John Jones Jr]

There is no such thing as correct door cards for recaro seats

Incorrect.

 

[d w124]

Incorrect.

If you say so

 

[psa]

i looks like "d w124" cant be bothered arguing with you about the seats but i have a little more time!
why do you think the door cards are incorrect? was the seat controls removed once the recaros where installed??

 

[Niks]

Has anyone noticed that this car has rear SLS?