5 Year Old Daughter Horse Riding Incident Advice

[grober]

Large animals and small children=accident waiting to happen.
Hope your daughter makes a speedy recovery- youngsters heal pretty quickly physically-- any psychological trauma from the accident and its aftermath may not be immediately obvious however and you should be alert for this. Best wishes.

 

[BTB 500]

The bloke that said who just intimated a 5 year old can control a horse is clearly nuts, a full grown adult cannot control a horse that does not want to be controlled, they weigh 600-700kg and are extremely strong and have the flight instinct.

Exactly that.

Years ago when I lived near Hampton Court a teenage girl (16?) was on a horse that spooked and bolted for a mile or so till it ran onto the big roundabout at Sunbury Cross and hit a bus. The girl and horse were both killed. From the point the horse bolted she was simply a passenger - there was no way she could have controlled it.

There is ALWAYS risk involved in riding - a good friend of mine (very experienced rider) was thrown off her own horse and died. As mentioned, statistically it's a pretty dangerous hobby.

To the OP, I'm really sorry to hear of your daughter's accident and I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery. As you say the risk/reward decision is a very difficult one with children. We have our own Icelandic horse (basically a large pony, bred to carry adults cross-country) which my son has been around/on since he was a tiny tot. At 8 years old now he is allowed to ride him slowly round a fenced-off part of his field (with instructions to get off fast if anything happens), but anywhere else one of us always leads the horse.

 

[Alf Barnet]

I hate the Internet at times like this. Draw a line under it, don't go legal.

My daughters both rode but only once I thought they were big enough, one at 8, one at 9. My Dad (who actually met my mum at the stables, I was probally conceived there too!) thought that was too young still. They always had their own fitted hats and body protectors. We did have the occansional fall and tears.

I would take your daughter to another school, or local petting farm to see the horses, get the polo mints out and stroke them (no need to ride) just so she doesn't get a phobia over horses.

 

[Peter DLM]

Very sorry to hear about your daughter and I wish her a speedy and complete recovery.

Having spent the first part of my life in Guernsey where my house was surrounded (literally) by horses and menageries I quickly learnt that horses are dumb, expensive, and major liabilities. Seen people kicked to death or left with serious brain damage too often, even when being led around. Sure, there was mild enjoyment in feeding one an apple now and then and I'd never stand to see cruelty to one, but in my experience they're just too much like hard work for the benefit.

I'd always recommend grass-roots motorsport instead, karting, whatever, much safer than horses and if the child gets bored of it you don't have to keep paying fees or if you have your own horse, looking after it every day, they're extremely high maintenance as you would expect from a large living mammal. Plus a dirt bike you can throw in the garage wet and dirty and forget about it until you want it next.

 

[JohnBell]

Best wishes to your daughter.

Animals were not put on this planet for humans to captivate, this is a superb example why -

http://www.blackfishmovie.com

 

[markjay]

Hopefully your daughter will make a quick and full recovery and the incident is soon forgotten.

However... in the unlikely event that she does suffer some form of long-term ill-effects, you should consider compensation to help cope with any cost her care might need or possible future loss of earnings etc.

Of course this is a worst-case and very unlikely scenario, but at this stage you would probably want to keep all your options open for any eventuality.

I would ask the riding school for details of their Public Libality insurance policy (or any other applicable insurance policy they may have in place).

Keeping in mind that in spite of whatever T&C your wife may have signed, the riding school is not exempt from acting professionally, responsibly, in a competent manner, and within H&S guidelines.

I would then write to the insurer and notify them of the incident in very brief and broad terms, providing only the date, time, location and nature of the event, and without going into detail as to not prejudice your case should it come to that.

If you do end up having to make a claim (hopefully not) then the next step may involve a solicitor, but even so please keep in mind that the insurer might very well prefer to settle than going to court (not all insurers are unreasonable...).

Again, this is an extreme scenario and most likely it will never get to that.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I quickly learnt that horses are dumb, expensive, and major liabilities.

They're the type I seem to back...

 

[martyz]

Firstly I hope your daughter fully recovers from this incident.

Generally children should be around the age of seven to take up lessons,and only back horses that are known as schoolmasters which are older horses that are used to new riders. They will not get annoyed or bolt if the rider does something wrong, and will be safe for the new rider and help them to learn their new skills. Schoolmasters should also be able to stand still in one place for long periods of time without getting restless, while newly mounted riders are told exactly what to do and are getting used to sitting on a horses


As mentioned H&S should be strongly observed by the school,a first aider should be on site and an accident/incident book should be used.

If the school is reputable they will be able to help you without having to
resort to legal action.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Very sorry to hear about this Dean, it's a dads worse nightmare and I can only imagine what you're going through at the minute, I hope it all works out ok pal

As to the liability issue, by the sounds of your explanation this "school" does seem a bit lax and it sounds like you were already a bit wary before the accident happened.

My mothers side of the family are all horse people and they tried to get me involved when I was younger but my paternal grandad always said "never go near an animal you can't knock out with one punch or at least wrestle to the ground" and horses certainly don't fall into that category.

 

[neilrr]

Having spent the first part of my life in Guernsey where my house was surrounded (literally) by horses and menageries I quickly learnt that horses are dumb, expensive, and major liabilities. Seen people kicked to death or left with serious brain damage too often, even when being led around. Sure, there was mild enjoyment in feeding one an apple now and then and I'd never stand to see cruelty to one, but in my experience they're just too much like hard work for the benefit.

^^^ In a nutshell. Horses are large, stupid & dangerous.

What ever made you think a 5 y.o. could ever be in control of a horse, regardless of what the stable said?

 

[rockits]

Thanks all for your well wishes and comments/opinions. It does really help and is much appreciated. It is the 2nd reason for being a member on the forum (2nd to owning a Mercedes of course!) so civil people can discuss lots of things in a civil way. We used to help each other in different ways years ago and times change. This is one of those changes.

I cannot change what has happened but I can change the future and make sure no child or parent has to go through this if it can be possibly prevented. I know you learn from your experiences and no pain and not gain and all that. However I cannot see the value of putting lives at risk unnecessarily. I am not a litigator and that US litigation culture does annoy me but clearly there were a few issues here. At the very least it seems that parents need to either be made aware clearly of risks/options. Also that they have all the information they need and require to make informed & safe decisions for their children.

Even if this thread has triggered thoughts to others in a similar position to stop and think harder initially before making decisions, this will be a massive positive then a move forward. This is the power of the Internet and one of its main and clear advantages for me. It really has the power to inform and make a difference very quickly to the masses. In that regard it has to be a good thing.

It is about us always being better about what we do as a human race and moving forwards with better process/procedure. I know what we need to do here and had this in my mind from day one. I am a thoughtful person and considerate to all. All your info has really helped to hammer home what my initial thoughts were and what our direction should be.

I have and will not name any names and seek no desire for compensation outside any costs we have incurred as a direct result of the incident. We should at least not be left out of pocket. We are comfortable but not rich by any stretch of the imagination so all costs need to be dealt with. My main criteria is to make sure my daughter is OK, will be OK in the medium to long term, receives the very best care money can buy (and it has to it seems!). Then secondly to make sure this doesn't happen again if it can be prevented. One less incident that could have been prevented is a victory and should be seen as positive.

I am far from perfect but do aspire and try to be. The phrase 'good enough' to me is overused and NOT 'good enough'! We need to work harder, to be better, harder, faster, stronger etc. etc. Anything less is lazy and bordering on negligence.

I know accidents happen and we are all only human but there is much that happens in today's modern world that IS preventable. We should try to prevent it wherever possible surely. Balance is clearly key but I cannot see any value in potential fatalities or serious life changing injuries being experienced when they could have been prevented both simply and easily. It is not character building or experience in these cases.....it is just blind stupidity.

Any constructive criticism brought to me and my business is very much welcomed as we strive to be better and be the best we can be. I hope the Riding School would encourage and embrace this ethos as well and would want to improve but I guess time will tell. A single incident for them as a business could destroy their business and potentially owners lives so it within everyone's interests to be transparent about everything then make changes/improvements where required.

There should be national government guidelines around this to 'guide' as to what should be acceptable or not. This should be law and anyone providing these services should be aware of it and need to read then adhere to these guidelines. Clearly there is some need for interpretation and flexibility as we don't want Brussels going overboard on this kind of thing. However it is my opinion that a 5 year old child should not be left unaided without a teacher/helper present holding the reigns as a very basic minimum. Any person with half a brain can see and sense that a situation other than this is clearly not acceptable and clearly not as safe as it should be.

It is my duty as a human being and parent I feel to have created the thread and posts then to follow up as required. If the guidelines/information exists it should be advertised/marketed better. If there isn't any guidelines/information then these should be drawn up and put into effect.

 

[davidjpowell]

Governing body is British Horse Society. I think.

First step is to find out what the school should be doing from them and whether they are members.

 

[neilrr]

You cannot legislate or litigate risk out of life.

Sadly your daughter had an accident. Be thankful the outcome wasn't a lot worse.

 

[tuonopepper]

Firstly I hope she fully recovers and quickly, secondly don't beat yourself up, you can't wrap them in bubble wrap and you have to go out and earn a crust to provide for them, sometimes as hard as it is to deal with **** just happens (my 65 year old mum is on her annual skiing holiday in Italy and yesterday she took a tumble, banged her head, lost conciousness and was airlifted to hospital - thankfully she is OK). I guess what I'm saying is while you can buy all the gear you can't mitigate every risk no matter how hard you try and Skiing, Horse Riding etc are dangerous activities.

I'm no horsey person but my daughter did have lessons, I had no experience so went on recommendation. She was probably 6 through 8 while she was having them. She had them on an indoor and outdoor arena, proper gear and the horse/Pony(?) always seemed matched to her size and ability, as she progressed a bit she was often 'solo' (instructor) in arena trotting, galloping and latterly jumping but absolutely this should be ability based.

I can be a real dog with a bone when I feel someone has wronged me or mine and we obviously don't have all the detail here but as tough as it is you may have to just put this down as bad look, others have mentioned a solicitor and that could be a good point of call as would be any riding association (such things exist) for some advice. The riding school should certainly have public liability insurance.

I think the main thing is focus all your energies right now on getting your little one through this traumatic time, but really, it's not your fault.

James.

 

[pipmk]

I'm wondering why people are thinking a 5 year old isn't old enough to control a horse on their own? If it's down to competence (I'm not a horsey person) then surely the pupil will be competent enough to set the horse off themselves within an area. I have a lot of friends with horses, with children as young as three controlling them. Is this a full grown horse or a pony we are talking about?

Things like this in institutes of education have forms to sign, like the one I have to sign for my son to play ice hockey. He's not even allowed to join in and sign up to the EIHA until past the age of five, and some of these five year olds are amazing on the ice. My dad didn't worry about me when I started playing hockey, and that's with witnessing kids get their fingers mauled under skates when they've fallen over and a glove has come off, or received a puck to the helmet at 40mph+ (that bloody hurts, helmet or not!)

I think as far as having the police involved is a bit extreme? There are governing bodies to go to that will hammer down on the school worse than the police with regards to health, safety and practices

Although these things happen, I do hope your little girl makes the best recovery possible. Unfortunately we can't wrap our children in bubble wrap. My parents certainly didn't and I've had an eventful and happy life!

As you say you are not a horsey person,just how heavy is a horse,how heavy is a 5 year old,how strong is a horse compared with a 5 year old?
Absolute madness in my view and all the adults there were grossly irresponsible. The police should be involved and the school should be prosecuted. The child was extremely fortunate,a kick in the head can easily kill.
There is a world of difference between rapping them in cotton wool and exposing them to severe risk at an age when they cannot make judgements for themselves. That is why we are adult and they are children.
BTW you cannot sign away your rights to be covered by health and safety legislation,the law or good practice,thank God.

 

[ash59fifty-uk]

As you say you are not a horsey person,just how heavy is a horse,how heavy is a 5 year old,how strong is a horse compared with a 5 year old?

How heavy is a small crosser? A full size quad bike? Not as heavy as horses or unpredictable no, but still the same. There's elements of danger in most extreme activities.

My understanding (or lack of, in this field) was that children at that age only rode ponies, not a full grown horse.

I was driving cars around at 4/5 at my grandads garage, operating 10+ tonne excavators and other construction equipment at that age too. Maybe back then it was different.

Like now, I certainly wouldn't let a young child out 'till the street lamps turn off' as I was told as a youth. Too many weirdos around. However if my five year old wants to try something, element of risk or not, I will (providing relatively safe to do so) let him try it out.

I may be biased, my son is doing ten year old work at school and is more than capable of having a higher than average sense of judgement of things, it really is astounding.

 

[neilrr]

As you say you are not a horsey person,just how heavy is a horse,how heavy is a 5 year old,how strong is a horse compared with a 5 year old?
Absolute madness in my view and all the adults there were grossly irresponsible. The police should be involved and the school should be prosecuted. The child was extremely fortunate,a kick in the head can easily kill.
There is a world of difference between rapping them in cotton wool and exposing them to severe risk at an age when they cannot make judgements for themselves. That is why we are adult and they are children.
BTW you cannot sign away your rights to be covered by health and safety legislation,the law or good practice,thank God.

Parents included?

 

[oldguy57]

Some very interesting points made and differing views to think about. One or two final points. The school (no matter what their terms and conditions are) have a duty of care to their customers. I would have thought that the younger the child the greater the duty of care should be. Leaving a 5 year old (who has basically not much concept of risk or danger) to basically freestyle on a horse , whatever its size, to me means absolutely failing in their duty of care. Equally I personally would have stopped the lesson if I had seen her unsupervised (not wrapping her up just sensible precautions) but that's just me and hindsight is always 20/20. Also having worked in the insurance industry for decades I think it likely that the liability Insurers will attempt to deny liability unless you have legal representation should you choose to go down this route. Now is not the time to make a decision but what I would definitely do is to write down in detail exactly what happened whilst the sequence of events is still fresh in your memory. Hope you daughter recovers quickly.

 

[pipmk]

Parents included?

Very much parents included,being a parent is a responsibility not just a joy.Parents are expected to use the same judgement (if not better) as the normal adult and cannot sign away their children's legal protection as this would be against public policy and undermine the law. These disclaimers have little or no legal effect especially if made on behalf of a third person who has in law not the legal capacity to make a judgement.

 

[brucemillar]

People. Stay calm. Let the OP work out his plan of action. His posts suggest that he is of very sound mind.

Something to consider when dealing with animals? They are animals and as such can be unpredictable in their behaviour. I keep Huskies and have done for over twenty years. On any typical day I will be asked by complete strangers "are they friendly". This is normally done in tandem with them sticking out a hand at the dogs face. Wrong!! They are friendly and spend most of their lives being very docile. But, like us they get bad days and angry moments. Unlike us, they don't tend to discuss this with us. "You know Bruce, I'm not feeling so good today. I may just have a chomp at the next bloke that sticks his hand in my face". I guess that horses act in the same way.

The responsibility lies with us all to give animals that bit of respect and space and not to assume that they "are friendly". I read newspaper stories about owners with "out of control" dogs (an offence) you do not get to hear the dogs side of the story as to why it was/is out of control.

Horse riding is what most children want to do at some point. It is a fun thing to do and beats video games and breakfast telly. I would hate if we decided that it suddenly is some kind of deadly pursuit.

In this instance it went wrong and the young lady has been injured. This is never good. One hopes tat the OP can work with those responsible for the school to reach a settlement that works for them all.