5G Networks Pros & Cons - Discuss

GeeJayW

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Not an invitation for C-19 conspiracy theorists. Please set up your own thread for that.

Given the huge jump in bandwidth and reduction in latency that 5G offers, there comes a whole plethora of communication and data transfer opportunities.

Some, indeed many of these will be advantageous to the end users. For example higher quality media streaming, better video conferencing, more opportunities to reduce long commutes and corresponding congestion, could get away from the need for huge city-based office blocks, reduce dependency on transport fuels and so on.

There also comes the capability and opportunities for social engineering as more aspects of our daily lives become 'part of the machine'.

For example in the near future vehicles will use 5G to communicate with each other in real-time which is hailed as a big step forward in managing traffic flow and improving safety. It also presents increased opportunities for 'big brother' style monitoring and geo-fencing.

Finally, are there scientifically proven health risks (not C-19 or other Icke like twaddle) associated with 5G network infrastructure EM/RF radiation? Do the levels contravene the health standards?

I thought this was a useful read on 5G from the comms industry viewpoint, that are of course keen to push on with the technology for commercial/financial reasons.
Ericsson 5G: made for innovation

So, what do we think about 5G?
Will it be a transformative technology that enhances our lives?
Are we with 5G, sleep walking to 1984?

Discuss.
 
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Bobby Dazzler

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I don’t know enough about the health risks to really comment on that, however big brother doesn’t concern me. Whether my car is connected by 5g or not, the Government could find out where I am through other means, and I have nothing to hide.

The benefits of being even more connected though will be enormous, however the recent crisis makes me more cognisant of the need for resilience and ability to do things in an unconnected way, as 1 in 100 year events do happen.

The example of 5g and autonomous cars has been mentioned in this and the “other” thread. The reality is that 4g would enable car-to-car and car-to-toad communication easily enough already but the latest and greatest will be faster even faster/better.

If we lose connectivity in a connected world for whatever reason, then mobility will need to continue so we need to make sure that there’s resilience built into in the system and alternative mobility options will need to be available.
 

flowrider

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I can't see what 5g will do for us that 3g and 4g don't already do. I worked in the IT industry for many years and IMO advances in technology are more about manufacturers company profits than anything else. I often thought to myself with new tech that it's great that it can be done but why do we need it.
 
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GeeJayW

GeeJayW

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Thanks. The intention of this is separate the discussion from the 'other' thread.

For me, I think there are huge potential benefits for super-broadband speed mobile and wireless internet technology that comes with 5G. But it must available to and affordable for everyone, otherwise sections of the population will become disenfranchised.

Right now there are still areas of the country that do not have good or even any 4G coverage. There are areas near to where I live that have no mobile signal at all.

Ericsson et al are keen to press ahead as they see the commercial potential, but they would be wouldn't they. It's called marketing.

Among other things, they propose that with new use cases made viable through 5G, service providers could access 690BN USD of additional revenue. They also propose that using 5G sensor technologies, the agricultural industry could become much more efficient reducing use of water and improving yield.

So some of it sounds at least interesting.
 

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Not an invitation for C-19 conspiracy theorists. Please set up your own thread for that.

Given the huge jump in bandwidth and reduction in latency that 5G offers, there comes a whole plethora of communication and data transfer opportunities.

Some, indeed many of these will be advantageous to the end users. For example higher quality media streaming, better video conferencing, more opportunities to reduce long commutes and corresponding congestion, could get away from the need for huge city-based office blocks, reduce dependency on transport fuels and so on.

There also comes the capability and opportunities for social engineering as more aspects of our daily lives become 'part of the machine'.

For example in the near future vehicles will use 5G to communicate with each other in real-time which is hailed as a big step forward in managing traffic flow and improving safety. It also presents increased opportunities for 'big brother' style monitoring and geo-fencing.

Finally, are there scientifically proven health risks (not C-19 or other Icke like twaddle) associated with 5G network infrastructure EM/RF radiation? Do the levels contravene the health standards?

I thought this was a useful read on 5G from the comms industry viewpoint, that are of course keen to push on with the technology for commercial/financial reasons.
Ericsson 5G: made for innovation

So, what do we think about 5G?
Will it be a transformative technology that enhances our lives?
Are we with 5G, sleep walking to 1984?

Discuss.
Well , the main thing for me , after 30 odd years of having phones on contracts , starting out with an Orange Motorola MR1 with a whopping 15 minutes of talk time per month for £15 ! , and gradually moving up to deals with included handsets at around the £30/month mark , until I was latterly paying £50/month for the benefit of a new handset every other year with a reasonable amount of airtime ( and passing my old phones round the family ) ; I finally got to the stage where no one else needed a new phone ; I was quite happy with my iPhone 7 , and being out of contract I got a cracking SIM only deal with unlimited everything for under £20 / month .

I've been using the 4G connection with unlimited data as my sole access point to the internet these last 2 months ( no landline in my mum's old house , and I don't need one ) : it is plenty fast enough to watch streaming HD video , so I really don't see the point of changing , nor do I want to pay any more , which 5G almost certainly would cost .
 

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5G has the advantages of speed and capacity, but the disadvantages of distance. It will drive a different infrastructure of more 3 tier with micro cells being placed out there.

The advantage here is that the number of devices that can be connected to the whole infrastructure will increase significantly. It will also start the convergence of wifi and mobile networks to the point in the future we won't need both. A way off yet, but that's the route we will go. IoT devices will connect directly to a 5G network rather than wifi.

It will also remove the need for copper or fibre to buildings which is an expensive way to deliver connectivity. This is why all of the phone suppliers are rushing to replace analogue phone lines with digital and TV suppliers to streaming services as (mainly in the US) the monopolies which have been supported by fibre sharing restrictions will be broken down. It is far easier to put a micro cell on every other existing lamp post which already has power, or on every church or even house than it is to stand up a new massive 4G tower.

The investment in 4G will slow and the capacity reduce over time which will force people to shift as the telco's will not want to invest in both technologies.

The other interesting thing we are starting to see is that telco's may be forced to co-invest in the edge technology and share that with each other, only maintaining a separated core. This will remove the which carrier has the better signal where and they will have to focus on true customer services as their differentiation.

As has already been mentioned, new advances will come from devices being able to talk to each other. Automotive with self driving cars linked to smart cities to manage traffic flow in real time. Retail stores becoming more of an experience centre and able to communicate with the customer in new ways not imagined today.

It is these new business models which drive technology change, not the need for the telco's to create new revenue. It takes a huge amount of investment, they would much rather sit and optimise what they have and drive better profit margins. It is us as consumers forcing them to evolve.
 

Steveml63

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Hi,
In the old days of dialup modems and early broadband - it would be hard for somebody to hijack your bandwidth and send large volumes of data from your equipment.
With 5G - the bandwidth is so fast - it is easy to imagine rogue elements embedding stuff within their 5G hardware to monitor what the user is doing and sending back large volumes of sensitive data to a central server, overseas.
I am not surprised that countries are nervous of the key players that are proposing to supply 5G equipment - that form part of countries critical infrastructure.
5G is great - just a bit nervous of some of the key suppliers!
Cheers
Steve
 

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I simply do not need faster anything phone/comms wise , while I appreciate others might I do not want to pay for it on their behalf when I am forced into 5G because 4G is 'switched off'.
All of the gubbins in our household and for my work all get along fine on the internet connection we have and 4G, same when out and about.
In my area recently all of the pavements have been dug up to lay fibre optic cables (Virgin) this will go on for a year . A quick straw poll of my 5 or 6 of my neighbours and all of them said they were happy with their internet speeds and had no need to change.
I suspect this will change when certain things are switched off and there is a massive push for us all to connect to the fibre optic cable none of us asked for.

Is it correct that because of the bandwidth 5G needs an 'antenna' every 250 metres..if true thats a lot of units , no matter how small they are.

Let's get everyone in the UK connected to what we currently have before we are charged even more for something the vast majority of us neither need nor asked for.
 

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Once 5G is established and commonplace it will quickly render landlines/optical lines redundant.

Its natural progression, I dont understand why people are against this.
I can't see what 5g will do for us that 3g and 4g don't already do. I worked in the IT industry for many years and IMO advances in technology are more about manufacturers company profits than anything else. I often thought to myself with new tech that it's great that it can be done but why do we need it.
Eh? if you worked in the IT industry then you should have a basic grasp of what improvements it offers. even non IT people would understand this.

I work in the IT industry and do not agree that advances in technology are just for company profits..
 

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Among other things, they propose that with new use cases made viable through 5G, service providers could access 690BN USD of additional revenue. They also propose that using 5G sensor technologies, the agricultural industry could become much more efficient reducing use of water and improving yield.
.
I always smile when I see this kind of statistic. So there will be an additional 690BN USD suddenly appear? Surely there is a certain amount of money globally, so it will just divert that wealth from elsewhere? I see the same argument with HS2 and IMHO it's smoke and mirrors

Having said that, I fully support advances in technology for it's own sake. That is the human condition surely to push forward? It could be argued that civilisations have failed in the past due to their reluctance to change and adapt?

** PLEASE can we not let this thread descend to personal name calling and infantile behaviour? **
 
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m80

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I don't understand all the ins and out of 5g, so for me this thread is good as those with better knowledge and developed opinions can help me understand better. That being w/o the mind control theories.

My, possibly mistaken, understanding is that 5g has limited range. So it would only be good in congested locations like city centres. I don't see how it would connect to a car in the Highlands for example, or is this via satellite?

I can appreciate theories that the increased frequencies might interfere with a bodies natural rhythms, in a similar (but not same) way that overhead high voltage lines would give headaches to those living beneath.

Like others I don't perceive a need for it myself, but appreciate the world moves on in ways that leave me behind.
 

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I'd just like a phone signal at home, surely phone service is a more important priority? I don't even have 3G at home either.
 

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I don't understand all the ins and out of 5g, so for me this thread is good as those with better knowledge and developed opinions can help me understand better. That being w/o the mind control theories.

My, possibly mistaken, understanding is that 5g has limited range. So it would only be good in congested locations like city centres. I don't see how it would connect to a car in the Highlands for example, or is this via satellite?

I can appreciate theories that the increased frequencies might interfere with a bodies natural rhythms, in a similar (but not same) way that overhead high voltage lines would give headaches to those living beneath.

Like others I don't perceive a need for it myself, but appreciate the world moves on in ways that leave me behind.
Yes rural areas will be a challenge because sources of power for 5g boosters are few and far between. In urban areas you can piggy back off streetlights, which are often absent in rural areas and so will require a tap into the electricity supply.

Connectivity between things - whether they’re cars or anything else - can easily be achieved with Wi-fi, 4g or even 3g - the amounts of data will be relatively small as the processing all happens elsewhere, in the “cloud”.

Faster connections will mean more data can be transmitted in less time though, and so may open up new opportunities but many of the things mentioned so far in this thread can be achieved with 3G/4G and Wi-fi, so these are not the reason for having 5G, but may be enhanced by having 5G.
 

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None of them work here. I am with O2, the mrs with Vodaphone, neighbours on other networks. Its a PITA. I use wi-fi calling but that can be intermittent. We lose internet connection about 3 times a week, its been looked into so many times and its because we are at the "end of the line" apparently.
 

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In the late seventies I worked with aviation radar systems. The running joke at the time was that when radar operators will have children, they will only have girls, but not boys. This was some sort of black humour with regards to the potential effects of radiation on the human body, in this case fertility. No idea how this started, but the point is that the issue of the potential health risks from Electromagnetic radiation is at least 40 years old (my memory does not go any further on this issue..).

Then, in the early eighties I had a Motorola DynaTAC 8000X (aka 'Brick') mobile phone, followed by a Motorola Micro-TAC (aka 'Alpha'), and then a long period of various Nokia phones. Much was said about the effects of radiation... there were claims that people were getting cancers in their hips from carrying the phone in a belt pouch (a common way of carrying mobile phone in the nineties), and brain cancers from holding the mobile phone to their head. In a bid to reassure the public, mobile phone manufacturers where providing the Specific Absorption Rate (SAR) for their equipment, the lower the figure the 'safer' the phone. The solution - for a while - seemed to be the use of a handsfree kit consisting of a long piece of wire and an earpiece/mic, which meant that the phone no longer needed to be held next to the head while talking - but this was short lived when some people claimed that the wire acts as an amplifying aerial and in fact concentrates the energy to the brain. So again, RF Electromagnetic energy was in the news.

In the mid noughties, when commercial WiFi systems started to appear on the market, followed by home WiFi systems, the debate continued. When we first installed WiFi in a primary school, some 15 years ago, I was asked how safe is was? I Googled it but there were no official guidelines as to the use of WiFi equipment in schools.

I also remember an ongoing debate regarding the effects of national-grid transforms, high-voltage lines and pylons, on human health, with claims that people living nearby any of these have a significantly higher rate of cancers. And, more recently, the same has been said about cellular masts (as early as 3g). In fact, over ten years ago now, a pole with and a mast on top was erected at the corner of our street, only to disappear without trace a couple of months later - I was told that the residents in the building nearby complained to the council (who would have granted the planning permission to the mobile phone operator) and demanded its removal. If you look at the roof tops and see where cellular phones masts are located today, you will see without fail that they are only located on top of building where the occupants have no say (e.g. commercial or government premises, or on building where the Landlord struck deal with the mobile phone operators).

More recently, I heard that there are claims that people who keep mobile phones in their breast pocket may suffer heart problems.

And we did not even touch on the Electromagnetic fields that we are all exposed to on daily basis just by having electricity and electrical consumers and motors all around us at home, work, and while commuting between the two.

In conclusion, I have no firm opinion either way, but I think that people who are enraged by only a specific piece of technology are in fact demonstrating that they have no grasp on the overall issue.

The only practical piece of advice I can share is that Electromagnetic fields decrease by the square of the distance, and this means that moving a source of radiation away from yourself by even a few inches will produce an exponential reduction in intensity.
 

markjay

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On a related note, as mentioned by others, there's also the 'butterfly effect'.

Even if 3g/4g/5g is unhealthy, the reduction in harmful exhaust emissions and reduction in deaths and injuries on our roads resulting from more people working remotely may more than compensate for it. I do not know, because this requires scientific research, a concept that the mast-burners are clearly unfamiliar with.
 

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Finally, are there scientifically proven health risks (not C-19 or other Icke like twaddle) associated with 5G network infrastructure EM/RF radiation? Do the levels contravene the health standards?
Health risks (or not) will depend on the frequency and radiated power. One complication is that 5G will use a range of different frequencies:

5G Frequency Bands and Spectrum Allocation in the UK

But I'm sure there are no currently proven risks or the global rollout would be a non-starter.
 

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