84 240D 5 Speed - Ultimate in reliable and economical transportation

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My 5.4 litre supercharged V8 E55 running LPG with over 150k miles never broke down once in 4 years, neither did my other E55K, or my 6.2 litre E63, etc. I’ve bought cars for pocket change with higher mileage that never broke down. Only real breakdowns I can remember were in some old Fords and Rovers many years back, bar the odd flat battery or puncture etc which you can get with any car of course.

In fact I’ve owned about twenty different Mercedes cars and never actually broken down in any of them, some low mileage and modern, some older with high mileage.

Yes I agree with you, there’s a lot more to go wrong with modern diesels but think now how many there are on the roads today versus old W123s that have disproportionate amounts of TLC/repairs/restoration carried out on them.

The point is you don’t need to buy a 35/40 year old car for reliability, or economy - modern ones are generally ok too :)
 
I had a 190E 2.5 5 speed manual, for about 3 weeks. Couldn't live with it's lack of acceleration.

Dangerously slow off the line & scary when pulling into traffic. It was OK when up to speed & would have been a good car for long motorway trips at a constant-ish speed. I used to find myself revving the holy **** out of it (to no avail) & going into roundabouts & bends too fast 'cos it was such a PITA building up speed again. I imagine a 240D is worse.
 
I think when you accounted for LPG at half the cost of unleaded my E55K would return something approaching 40mpg with 400hp+

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That was five up with a full load of luggage, running on gas pretty much the whole way :cool:

Was an awesome car, and cheaper than the 240D in this thread too! ;)
 
I had a 190E 2.5 5 speed manual, for about 3 weeks. Couldn't live with it's lack of acceleration.

Dangerously slow off the line & scary when pulling into traffic. It was OK when up to speed & would have been a good car for long motorway trips at a constant-ish speed. I used to find myself revving the holy **** out of it (to no avail) & going into roundabouts & bends too fast 'cos it was such a PITA building up speed again. I imagine a 240D is worse.
If you mean 190D 2.5 (the 190E 2.5 is the 16v so called cosworth that does 0-60 in 7 odd seconds) then when the engine gets sluggish like that it is telling you it needs to have it's fuel filter(s) changed. About £10 in parts for the main metal filter and an inline filter under the air box. If you unlucky you also have to change the tank strainer if it has developed diesel bug.

Night & Day in performance terms (relatively ;))
 
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Have you seen how much the OP spends/has spent on his super reliable economical cars so far? ;) :)

I get the cars and appreciate them for what they are but there’s no point in pretending that they’re a better proposition for a daily driver and/or suit everyone’s needs better than their own choices :thumb:

I'm an outlier because I'm obsessive about maintenance and insist on my cars being original and immaculate. Most Classic Mercedes owners don't do this and yet these models enjoy the reputation that they do. Ever wonder why?

My 5.4 litre supercharged V8 E55 running LPG with over 150k miles never broke down once in 4 years, neither did my other E55K, or my 6.2 litre E63, etc...
...The point is you don’t need to buy a 35/40 year old car for reliability, or economy - modern ones are generally ok too :)

Respectfully, I think the point several of us who've owned these cars are making is that they generally are simpler and more trouble free to own than their modern counterparts. In my experience, even when things are worn or going to fail, owners get plenty of warning. Driving them is not as binary as with a sensor/ overly ECU equipped vehicle like a W211 or anything newer.

It's great that you made it to 4 years. My W115 is running on 44 years. My W123 is on 37 years. Do you genuinely believe you will be able to say the same about any of the cars you've mentioned?
 
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I think that where these older Mercedes Benz shine is how DIY friendly they are. They will nickle and dime you on a regular bases but repair costs are going to be low by an order of magnitude over anything modern (except for rust of course). They are great cars to use for learning how to work on cars.
 
I was pleasently surprised when i worked out Mercedes had designed the wheel lug nut removal tool in the w201 factory tool roll to also double as a lever/ tensioner when you replace the auxillary belt.

Makes the job really easy. Mercedes thought about ease of maintainence back then, before someone worked out making things difficult would mean more dealer profit.
 
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Precisely. The days of cars designed so that they can be worked on by amateurs are gone. Even main dealer workshop staff are more fitters than engineers these days. If you want somebody who knows what they are doing to work on your car, a good indie is your best bet.
 
It's great that you made it to 4 years. My W115 is running on 44 years. My W123 is on 37 years. Do you genuinely believe you will be able to say the same about any of the cars you've mentioned?

As a frame of reference, how many miles a year are they doing? Up until recently I was smashing out Chipchops 9 year mileage figure every 15-18 months, so nothing lasts long as a daily driver for me.
 
Precisely. The days of cars designed so that they can be worked on by amateurs are gone. Even main dealer workshop staff are more fitters than engineers these days. If you want somebody who knows what they are doing to work on your car, a good indie is your best bet.

Except bodywork. A body guy from 30-40 years ago had to know how straiten frames and panel beat. Today, most body men I know are experts with an impact driver.
 
I'm an outlier because I'm obsessive about maintenance and insist on my cars being original and immaculate. Most owners don't do this.



Respectfully, I think the point several of us who've owned these cars are making is that they generally are simpler and more trouble free to own than their modern counterparts. Sure, they're not as technologically giving or fast but if you want smiles per gallon, few Mercedes cars ever made come close.

It's great that you made it to 4 years. My W115 is running on 44 years. My W123 is on 37 years. Do you genuinely believe you will be able to say the same about any of the cars you've mentioned?
I used the car myself for around 4 years, but it was 12 when I bought it and is 16/17 years old now. It had averaged around 10k miles PA from new, without any major repairs or restoration work. In fact the previous owner put on about 40k miles in two years before I bought it. Still looked pretty smart for its age/mileage I thought and it felt like it would run for a good bit longer - ran well with plenty of power and didn’t use any oil or coolant, original exhaust system etc. E-classes seem pretty durable and well built cars in general from my experience :cool:

Time will tell but there’s quite a few of these modern petrol V8s with fairly high mileage for their age:

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Not being funny but looking at the two cars you are using as examples, your W115 has covered 1500 miles in the last 13 years? And your W123 about 2000 miles a year (5 miles a day?) Any car that is used for such limited amounts should be reliable, you don’t have to drive a fourty year old diesel car not to have to break down :)

I would still have kept my E55 a bit longer it had it not have been for the need of more interior space/seats :thumb:

Regards running cars long term, I would think in the future parts availability would be more likely to present issues. Not a problem for a weekend toy but if you’re planning to daily a ~ 40 year old car it’s something to consider. I can’t see any reason if you kept a 211 well maintained and treated it well it wouldn’t be possible for it to still be around in another twenty or so years - the earliest ones are approaching 18 years now already and no major issues with corrosion etc.

Rust is the major concern in the UK with a ~ 40 year old car and that’s one of the main reasons you don’t see more cars of this era than you otherwise would, the mechanics are simple nuts and bolts and easy to swap, keeping rusts at bay can be a challenge especially if it’s to be used all year round :)
 
I learnt to drive in a W123 240TD estate. Wonderful in some ways - very comfortable and solid, hugely reliable. It felt terribly slow then though, so I dread to think what it would feel like now. I wouldn't go back.
 
As a frame of reference, how many miles a year are they doing? Up until recently I was smashing out Chipchops 9 year mileage figure every 15-18 months, so nothing lasts long as a daily driver for me.
As an aside i have the service history for my 190d and it did 25,000 miles a year for the first 4 years of it's life. It was a company car, rep i presume.
 
Thankfully it would appear to have led an easier life after that, otherwise it probably would not have been around for you to buy!
 
Modern Mercedes Benz petrol V8's are fantastic engines and can go many miles. But they're not going to outlive on OM615 or OM617 diesel (not even close). The diesels use a Cast iron head and block and use an oil for fuel so everything is lubricated. 500k miles is pretty common here in the US and 1M miles is not unheard of.

Would I own another one? No, I'd rather break a speed record than win a high mileage award, and I can afford nice things now. Even if I could not afford nice things, what's an E430 sell for these days? $3000 would buy you a very nice one here in the US which will have ice cold a/c, electric everything , cruise control and 275hp. All in a package that's Toyota reliable.

The older 70's and 80's Mercedes are great hobby cars. They will nickle and dime you but not because of the engine. It's all the other stuff that's now 40 years old and will need replacing like weather stripping, bushings, steering components etc. If it's a hobby, that's fine. You have something to do every weekend that you can take pride in when you're done. But I don't want to tinker with my daily driver, I just want to drive it.

They can be made to go fast. I've heard of people getting 500hp from an OM617 with re-worked injection pumps and bigger turbos. For some reason, Sweden is the place to go for that kind of thing.

Right now I have 2 W211 E320 CDI's. One is in my daily rotation (along with a 98 SL500 and an 05 S55) and the other is going to either be a parts car or a flip. It has 290k miles but runs as well as my daily which only has 105k miles. I think that the OM648 might be the best engine MB ever built.
 
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Thankfully it would appear to have led an easier life after that, otherwise it probably would not have been around for you to buy!
Yes at around the 100,000 mile mark it was bought by a car dealer in Wales (auctioned off by company owners i assume) who sold it to its long term private Welsh owner from 1995 until 2010 (around 10K a year mileage). Then a short term owner who sold it to me in 2011.

Apart from consumables all it has required in my ownership is the aux belt tensioner, aux shock & belt, injection pump fuel delivery seals, front lower ball joints, top mounts, battery, discs & pads all round, propshaft centre mount & bearing and a stainless exhaust system.

In the history there are receipts for radiator, shock absorbers, springs and power steering pump as well as consumables so as with most high mileage cars pretty much everything has been replaced over time.
 
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Not being funny but looking at the two cars you are using as examples, your W115 has covered 1500 miles in the last 13 years? And your W123 about 2000 miles a year (5 miles a day?) Any car that is used for such limited amounts should be reliable, you don’t have to drive a fourty year old diesel car not to have to break down :)

I know you're being genuine, so I'm going to gently remind you that both W115 and W123 diesel saloons were used as taxis in the EU for decades. In some countries they still are! If memory serves, a Greek taxi driver put 2.8MM miles on his 76 240D. The chorus from owners on this thread should highlight that these cars simply don't break down. Counter intuitively, not driving them actually leads to more issues with the rubber parts etc.

Regards running cars long term, I would think in the future parts availability would be more likely to present issues.

To be completely transparent, I was worried about this when I purchased my W115. So far, over 90% of every part purchased for my mechanical restoration has been sourced from Mercedes Benz. I also have a thread on this very subject listing parts that are NLA for the benefit of other Stroke 8 users. A very small number of parts are NLA (radiator, vacuum actuators etc.)

Rust is the major concern in the UK with a ~ 40 year old car and that’s one of the main reasons you don’t see more cars of this era than you otherwise would, the mechanics are simple nuts and bolts and easy to swap, keeping rusts at bay can be a challenge especially if it’s to be used all year round :)

A valid point. I wouldn't recommend anyone purchase anything made pre-2002 and park it on the street.

Any Classic probably isn't for anyone without a covered parking spot, a love for fast acceleration or technology in the cabin. But if you like the "feel" of a real car, and unique looks and attention that goes with everything else shared here, it's hard to find a better bang(er) for the buck!
 
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I think you’re missing the point - you use the reliability and economy aspect to promote your model, which is great but then it turns out you don’t really drive them anywhere? :)

Kind of defeats the point!

Taxis do huge mileage and yes Mercedes diesel engines will cover great distances etc, but that’s not really relevant if the car only does 2000 miles a year or 1500 miles in 13 years? Especially if they spend more time being repaired than being driven.

My comparison to my 211 was a total chalk and cheese sort of thing, but the point is that even something modern and complex with relatively higher mileage use can still be reliable.

As I say, W123s are nice as classics but you don’t have to buy one for reliable transport, as most modern cars are pretty reliable anyway :cool:
 
If your point is that I have purchased very reliable cars and don't use them enough, sure, you're right. I have a few cars in my collection and can only drive so many a year. I haven't done anything but change the oil/ filters on my W123 for the past 3 years following its mechanical restoration, and I don't expect that to change for a long time to come.

If your point is that these cars are in any way less reliable than the W211 or really anything made since, which is what I think you were trying to say, then I'm afraid you're on your own there. As someone who owned a CDI and got fed up of replacing rear airbag suspension, xenon ballasts and SBC control units, I would never consider owning one again, despite the massive increase in performance.
 
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If your point is that I have purchased very reliable cars and don't use them enough, sure, you're right. I have a few cars in my collection and can only drive so many a year. I haven't done anything but change the oil/ filters on my W123 for the past 3 years following its mechanical restoration, and I don't expect that to change for a long time to come.

If your point is that these cars are in any way less reliable than the W211 or really anything made since, which is what I think you were trying to say, then I'm afraid you're on your own there. As someone who owned a CDI and got fed up of replacing rear airbag suspension, xenon ballasts and SBC control units, I would never consider owning one again, despite the massive increase in performance.
I never said a W123 (or a 115) is any less (or more) reliable than anything else, just that driving a ~ 40 year old car isn’t without its compromises. And let’s face it, you’re not using the car as intended or indeed as most people would use a car bought for ‘reliable and economical transport’. My bet is that if you were to pile on thousands of miles a year into a car like a modern car is designed for then they would gradually start to show issues, age related if nothing else, much the same as any older Mercedes or other car. And long term use on salted UK roads wouldn’t be kind to those sorts of cars either.

If you’re only doing 30/40 miles a week in your W123 (or 2 miles a week in your other one...) then I’m not sure you can claim superior reliability either. They haven’t been put to the test, I could argue that my 911 is just as reliable as that’s never broken down and only does a few hundred miles a year etc :thumb:

Out of interest, how many miles did you do in your 211? I suspect slightly more than 1500 miles in 13 years? Or 10k miles over 5 years? And how did those running costs compare? :)
 

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