A beginer's digital SLR

[Red C220]

I still think the Lumix G1 hits all the right notes for what the OP wants, especially as there's no requirements for video.

Here's a set that was eBay recently with both lenses with inbuilt image stabilisation. Right on the OP's budget.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1K with 14-45mm & 45-200mm | eBay

 

[Dryce]

I still think the Lumix G1 hits all the right notes for what the OP wants, especially as there's no requirements for video.

Yes but the question is whether the AF is up to the job.

The latest compact system camera AF systems are an improvement on previous contrast AF setups but still not up to the standard of the phase-detect AF in even the budget DSLRs when dealing with moving targets.

 

[Red C220]

Here's a professional review which expalins how the AF systems work on this particular camera. This is all a bit beyond me to be honest.

Works for me though, I get great shots with this camera.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Digital Camera review - Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 - Trusted Reviews

 

[LTD]

I'd opt for a decent s/h body / good lens / monopod and learn how to frame and pre-focus manually.

Shoot everything in RAW format.

Too many people forget the basics of photography and concentrate on the specifics these days. The end result is a crisp picture that is crap to look at.

 

[Dryce]

This is all a bit beyond me to be honest.

Phase detect AF works better on moving targets.

As LTD has suggested - pre focusing is an option and waiting to take the shot.

Except the EVF (or LCD) on a non-DSLR will mitigate against getting the timing right on fast moving targets.

It's not that the G1 is a bad camera - it's a very very nice piece of kit. But a DSLR with an optical viewfinder is a stronger candidate for this particular type of subject.

 

[proser]

Been looking around at the Nikon and came across a D3000 on ebay what's the experienced view on the D3000 and this kit ???

 

[Neiltodd]

A 55-200 which has not VR?

Thats going to be fun..........

exactly my thoughts

 

[timskemp]

Phase detect AF works better on moving targets.

As LTD has suggested - pre focusing is an option and waiting to take the shot.

Except the EVF (or LCD) on a non-DSLR will mitigate against getting the timing right on fast moving targets.

It's not that the G1 is a bad camera - it's a very very nice piece of kit. But a DSLR with an optical viewfinder is a stronger candidate for this particular type of subject.

A G2 will track a moving object, using the accelerometers in the lens to keep the focal point on the object or area you select.

The AF is quick, and the EVF isn't laggy, in fact the combination of the EVF and the lack of mirror could mean the lag from viewfinder to exposure is as good as or better than most DSLRs I've used.

 

[Dryce]

A G2 will track a moving object, using the accelerometers in the lens to keep the focal point on the object or area you select.

How can 'accelerometers in the lens' keep track of an unrelated moving object. They can only keep track of the location/movement of the lens. I think you're referring to optical stabilisation.

The AF is quick, and the EVF isn't laggy, in fact the combination of the EVF and the lack of mirror could mean the lag from viewfinder to exposure is as good as or better than most DSLRs I've used.

How can an EVF which requires reading and processing information from a sensor and rendering on a LCD or OLED be 'better than most DSLRs' in terms of real time display when they have a direct optical path?

(Actually it can cheat by using precapture - but AFAIAA only a few specialist cameras - such as the Oly E-100RS have ever offered this feature).

 

[timskemp]

How can 'accelerometers in the lens' keep track of an unrelated moving object. They can only keep track of the location/movement of the lens. I think you're referring to optical stabilisation.

The same sensors are used for the stabilisation and for the orientation detection, but if you're using AF, using a selected AF zone, when you hold your AF lock the zone moves with the motion of the camera, keeping the subject in focus. If the subject moves, the imaging electronics keep the area on the subject. It's a bit freaky at first but wonderful for getting moving objects, the combination of motion sensing and the image sensing is remarkable.

How can an EVF which requires reading and processing information from a sensor and rendering on a LCD or OLED be 'better than most DSLRs' in terms of real time display when they have a direct optical path?

(Actually it can cheat by using precapture - but AFAIAA only a few specialist cameras - such as the Oly E-100RS have ever offered this feature).

It doesn't, but the reading and processing is quicker than the movement of the mirror on a cheap DSLR. You need to try one. I was skeptical and had gone to buy a Pentax, but trying them both side by side (and getting a Pentax adaptor from Ebay) changed my mind, the Pentax felt slow by comparison.

The EVF on the G2 is LCoS by the way

 

[Dryce]

The same sensors are used for the stabilisation and for the orientation detection, but if you're using AF, using a selected AF zone, when you hold your AF lock the zone moves with the motion of the camera, keeping the subject in focus. If the subject moves, the imaging electronics keep the area on the subject. It's a bit freaky at first but wonderful for getting moving objects, the combination of motion sensing and the image sensing is remarkable.

I can't see the advantage. The advantage of a DSLR phase detect is that it doesn't have to play these sorts of tricks to try and keep up.

It doesn't, but the reading and processing is quicker than the movement of the mirror on a cheap DSLR. You need to try one. I was skeptical and had gone to buy a Pentax, but trying them both side by side (and getting a Pentax adaptor from Ebay) changed my mind, the Pentax felt slow by comparison.

The CSCs still have to stop down the aperture.

Granted they don't have to wait for the mirror to ascend. (Also an advantage with regard to vibration).

But the issue is AF acquiring lock (and maintaining lock) and the phase detect AF does this better - particularly as focal length increases.

Panasonic are doing a very good job with their micro 4/3 cameras. But I'd be wary of committing to one in preference to a DSLR if my primary use was fast moving subjects.

The EVF on the G2 is LCoS by the way

Splitting hairs. Still LCD is it not - in terms of response? Just the fabrication and illumination are handled differently.

OLED type displays are the way EVFs will be going to improve things.

 

[RobMorris]

I had a Nikon D40
Cheap and I liked it.

 

[x332race]

what would people suggest for a £400 budget ??

Look at Camera Brice Buster website

I only know Canon but suggest that an EOS 100d with kit lens at around the £400 mark would be a good place to start. If you can stretch a little further , the EOS 500d would be a good bet.

These are for new prices....its possible to get good deals on 2nd hand cameras if you know what your are looking for. Besides ebay, there are several outlets where you can get good 2nd hand stuff for instance:
LCE
MPB