a different perspective on the riots ...

Discussion in 'OT (OFF Topic) Forums' started by C240Sport97, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. C240Sport97

    C240Sport97 MB Club Veteran

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    From Here Is The City - HereIsTheCity.com

    Our Father, which art in prison
    Only mum knows his name.

    Thy riots come.
    Read it in the Sun, In Birmingham, as it is in London

    Give us this day our welfare bread,
    And forgive us our looting,

    As we are happy to loot those who defend stuff against us.

    And lead us not into employment
    But deliver us free housing.

    For thine is the spliff, the BlackBerry and the lager,

    Forever and ever,

    Innit'.
     
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  2. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Bit rich coming from an "organ" entitled "The Latest News for Business & Financial Markets Professionals" ----- You can spot the social inadequates who rioted coming a mile off. :doh: The besuited "criminals" of the "financial sector" on the other hand will surreptitiously steal your entire life savings or pension scheme without blinking an eye.:mad:
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    C240Sport97

    C240Sport97 MB Club Veteran

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    examples?
     
  4. timk

    timk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Bernie Madoff. Fred 'the Shred' Goodwin.
     
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  5. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    No doubt MPs and bankers that are caught with their hand in the till should go to prison.

    And no doubt rioters and looters caught in the act should also go to prison.

    But how are the two related? Does the fact that not everyone from the former category has been caught, means that we should let go of those from the latter category that did get caught?

    If so, then until they actually put speed cameras on the M1 between J1 and J10 and catch all those speeding drivers, I should not be fined for stopping on the single yellow line outside my local Tesco. There!
     
  6. OP
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    C240Sport97

    C240Sport97 MB Club Veteran

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    neither of them were pensions.

    Mr Madoff was investment manager to people stupid or greedy enough to believe him. It was US regulatory failure, not UK.

    Mr Goodwin did not steal anyone life savings or pensions.
     
  7. SPX

    SPX MB Club Veteran

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    I think Grobers point is that these 'looters' did millions of pounds worth of physical damage, yet 'bankers' and the associated financial institutions did billions, if not trillions of pounds worth of damage.

    All about scale and perception.
     
  8. timk

    timk Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Not directly 'pensions' but the (mis)fortunes of the banking sector presided over by people like Goodwin caused massive pain in the financial sector and in turn impacted the value of pensions, stocks, and investments linked to the fortunes of the economy. Unchecked and widespread use of complex financial instruments and the lack of risk segregation between the activities of retail and investment banking was a large factor contributing to the current economic woes in the world.

    Madoff - US or not, still a criminal in a suit.
     
  9. balge

    balge Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    For a more interesting perspective on the riots and their follow-up see

    Winston Smith
     
  10. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    The fact that the mock prayer was published anonymously on a web site described as "The Latest News for Business & Financial Markets Professionals" is the link. The phrase "THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK COMES TO MIND".
     
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  11. markjay

    markjay MB Club Veteran

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    The parallel is interesting, but...

    I doubt that the people who looted sports gear and electronics from high street shops were thinking of Bernard Madoff or Fred Goodwin.

    Actually... let me rephrase that:

    I doubt that the people who looted sports gear and electronics from high street shops even know who Bernard Madoff or Fred Goodwin are.
     
  12. jepho

    jepho Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Difficult to have any sympathy for investors who put their money in the hands of a person named Mad(e)off. :D

    Goodwin did not deserve his bonuses nor that fabulous pension but the oversight was lacking (I don't remember who the lame government minister was) and it was effectively a shoo-in... and... he knew he could get away with it.

    Our bankers did not deserve their bonus payments but the wholesale gambling with digital money, that was not owned by the banks... and our public authorities, was rife and sadly, an all too common practice. I was shocked to discover our local authority had lost the money it had 'invested' and lodged in stock-market shares and an Icelandic bank! The authority had been gambling with the public money it had raised by way of council tax!

    timk referred to it above as the Unchecked and widespread use of complex financial instruments and the lack of risk segregation between the activities of retail and investment banking.

    I think that terminology tends to dignify the fraud... the act of gambling (with fingers crossed behind one's back) with money one doesn't have...and creates the notion that what was being done was logged under the heading of 'good business' when the reality was that we were all being royally shafted by the misconduct. Our children's children will still be paying for this gross error of judgement.

    Rampant profiteering has gone unchecked and unremarked and we must now all empty our pockets to pay for it. :(
     
  13. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Goodwin did not deserve his bonuses nor that fabulous pension but the oversight was lacking (I don't remember who the lame government minister was) and it was effectively a shoo-in... and... he knew he could get away with it.

    So the people who looted the stores because they knew the police couldn't stop them if they went in mob handed were justified in committing a criminal act because they could get away with it? If someone breaks into my house and steals something I don't blame the police for not catching him. I BLAME THE THIEF!
     
  14. jepho

    jepho Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    You have obviously misunderstood me. The visible theft of the looters is easy to recognise and I do not support it in any way, shape or form. I don't support dishonesty in any form either.

    The less visible fraudulent conduct of our so-called betters is not only more difficult to see but the ambivalence we appear to feel en-masse (as a society) where we worship entrepreneurial skill but don't know where to draw the line.

    Consider this: 10 people taking a flat screen TV each or one CEO walking off with millions. The dishonesty is the same but the damage is different. The law probably does not try to make any distinction other than was the post holder in a position of trust and were the obvious thieves aggravating the theft.

    Do you remember the collapse of Polly Peck? It was the well-named Asil Nadir who presided over it and ran off with a large sum of money. He escaped prosecution by running away from the UK and it was said that it would not be economical to pursue him and bring him to book for whatever crimes he had committed. Remember that he was suspected of transferring £200 million from the UK company to other companies in northern Cyprus some two years before the collapse of Polly Peck.

    He eventually returned to the UK in 2010 (presumably much wealthier for his £200 million fraud) and will face trial. Is he going to jail? Probably not. The fullness of time and the fact that he has given himself up some 20 years later, will probably mean a hefty fine (a couple of million?) and a ban on him being a company director for 5 years.

    My point is not to have this issue of wealthy and eminent society thieves justifying dishonesty for the less well off but to point out that white-collar crime is not taken seriously by society. I believe that Lord Mandelson (who elevated that crook to the peerage?) is now considering paying £8 million for a house. Obviously he has earned his money honestly as a member of parliament... oh wait! :(
     
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  15. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    I agree completely with your sentiments. My original post was really trying to highlight that very thing. I simply found that particular "prayer" turning up on that particular "website for parasites" singly ironic.

    Definition of Parasite:-
    1.
    an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.
    2.
    a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.
     
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  16. jepho

    jepho Hardcore MB Enthusiast

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    Understood. The parasite usually kills its host. :D
     
  17. trapperjohn

    trapperjohn MB Club Veteran

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    From an email doing the rounds.

    Inciting violent mobs is the essence of the left's agenda: Promote
    class warfare, illegitimate children and an utterly debased citizenry.

    Like the British riot girls interviewed by the BBC, the Democrats tell
    us "all of this happened because of the rich people."

    We're beginning to see the final result of that idea in Britain. The
    welfare state creates a society of beasts. Meanwhile, nonjudgmental
    elites don't dare condemn the animals their programs have created.

    Rioters in England are burning century-old family businesses to the
    ground, stealing from injured children lying on the sidewalks and
    forcing Britons to strip to their underwear on the street.


    I keep reading that it's because they don't have jobs -- which they're
    obviously anxious to hold. Or their
    social services have been reduced. Or their Blackberries made them do
    it. Or they disapprove of a referee's call in a Manchester United
    game.

    A few well-placed rifle rounds, and the rioting would end in an
    instant. A more sustained attack on the rampaging mob might save
    England from itself, finally removing shaved-head, drunken parasites
    from the benefits rolls that Britain can't find the will to abolish on
    moral or utilitarian grounds. We can be sure there's no danger of
    killing off the next Winston Churchill or Edmund Burke in these
    crowds.

    But like Louis XVI, British authorities are paralyzed by their
    indifference to their own civilization. A half-century of berating
    themselves for the crime of being British has left them morally
    defenceless. They see nothing about England worth saving, certainly
    not worth fighting for -- which is fortunate since most of their cops
    don't have guns.

    This is how civilizations die. It can happen overnight, as it did in
    Revolutionary France. If Britain of 1939 were composed of the current
    British population, the entirety of Europe would today be doing the
    "Heil Hitler" salute and singing the "Horst Wessel Song."
     
  18. SPX

    SPX MB Club Veteran

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    American Republican propaganda ^^

    Don't believe the hype...
     
  19. grober

    grober MB Club Veteran

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    Only 16 lines before it strayed into Anders Behring Breivik "nut job " territory. Pretty impressive for the T party. He thought you could cure societies ills with a few well placed rifle rounds too.
     

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