A new stealth tax is born

Discussion in 'Driving/Incidents/Roadrage' started by DaveK, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. DaveK

    DaveK Banned

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7321506.stm

    '"It'll mean that those selfish individuals who park in main roads out of cities will finally get their comeuppance, and the hundreds of thousands of other motorists who are inconvenienced by them will at last get some justice," he said'.
    Really. And how many utility companies have actually been fined this year for over running on road works, for ripping up the same stretch at least 3 times, for failing to replace the surface to a satisfactory level ?

    Road works are one of the biggest 'inconveniences " in my book. They disrupt the traffic flow and narrow our roads.
     
  2. kwakdonut

    kwakdonut MB Enthusiast

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    "It'll also mean that there'll be the same systems throughout the country and the money raised from any fines will go towards the motorist - ie it'll be spent on roads maintenance, the enforcement system or street lighting."


    Of course that's what all those fines are spent on along with the billions of pounds raised by Road Fund licence!!!










    NOT!!!
     
  3. OP
    OP
    DaveK

    DaveK Banned

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    I note it will be spent on the ' enforcement system ', which means like a cancer, it will spread and spread until you will get a ticket for stopping to look at a map in the middle of Delamere Forest or such like.
     
  4. Dave Lewis

    Dave Lewis Active Member

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  5. recycled

    recycled MB Enthusiast

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    well at least they admitted that targets were being set before for number of issued tickets
    Now lets see what they are not admitting now.
    So if i block traffic for 4hrs, how will a fine help to move the traffic along? a fine that will appear 4-5 days later.
    Ermm the A57 is closed and blocked due to some illegal parking.
    But the fine is in the post.
    meanwhile find another route. Do not be cross when footballers start parking anywhere they like.As they can afford any fine.
    can you win your appeal. I doubt it. will you even remmber the strret you were in five days ago? and if it was out of town?

    I just wish they pursue other forms of criminal activity like this.Burglars ,muggers, e.t.c Oh well, the biggest offence you can commit in this country right now is to buy a car.

    expect flat tyres and breakdowns to be fined as well. afterall you can always appeal.
    If you pack on a double/single yellow, someone comes and smashes your window and steals your car or radio, the chances are you have committed a bigger offence than the thief .
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  6. robert.saunders

    robert.saunders MB Enthusiast

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    A new stealth tax?

    What's new about this?:D
     
  7. MBManInKen

    MBManInKen MB Enthusiast

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    There we go again, never let a good story be ruined by the facts.

    Parking fines are neither new, stealth or a tax.

    I don't think anyone would disagree with the principle that it is in all road users' interest that parking restrictions and other flow arrangements are being controlled, and enforced. After all, without such a system any moron could park their car in front of your drive or my garage exit, or on bus stops etc. It would be a free for all and that is really not in our own interest as fellow road users on public roads.

    However, the new Act is a recognition that until now, the existing system has been unfair (MPs called it a "mess"), has elements of a postcode lottery, and has led to abuse.

    Many aspects of the new Act are intended to address those problems. For example, the new Act explicitly prohibits councils from setting targets for number of tickers, or income to be raised, etc. Not all councils in England had these, but there have been (rightfully so) complaints about those areas where they were used and the Act now ensures that this is no longer allowed. That can only be good for motorists.

    Read the Act carefully, and you'll see that in many respects motorists rights are actually reinforced. For example, the willy-nilly clamping of vehicles that has been so abused by private companies as a licence to print money, and that has so infuriated motorists, is no longer allowed. Only persistent offenders can from now on be immobilised.

    In the past, there was no difference between offences that actually did not result in immediate disenfranchisement or blocking of traffic (such as overstaying) compared to for example blocking a busy bus lane or parking on a red route. So, the Act introduces two levels of fines, with the lower one (for the lesser offences) outside the London area lower than they currently are and with more time to pay. That seems a lot fairer to me. Also, because the fines are now set nationally, councils can no longer impose fines (say for yellow line offences) that are higher than for instance shoplifting - thus contributing to a sense of unfairness. Again, that seems to me a positive thing. And it means that people will know what to expect, rather than find themselves subject to local randomness.

    Also of benefit to motorists is that adjudicators can now instruct councils to address shortcomings in their procedures. In the past, when you appealed because the signage was not compliant with the rules, or there was some other problem, your penalty would be cancelled, but the adjudicator could not actually force the council to rectify the incorrect procedure, thus leaving the door open for continued abuse. From now on, the adjudicator will actually be able to force councils to do something about it.

    The evidence base has also been cleaned up. Yes, they can now fine you when you drive off (thus closing a loophole - loopholes are unfair to others in that they mean that some people who actually committed the same offence get off without penalty while others who weren't quick or knowledgeable enough to use the loophole get to cough up, that is clearly not a "same justice for all" situation), but they cannot just randomly fine everyone. So, no, they cannot just note down registration numbers of vehicles passing by and sending them fines. They have to note down the tax disc number and date and offer suitable evidence.

    So, in many respects the Act is a good thing in that it recognises that the past system was unfair and unjust, and attempts to do something about that.

    However, the proof is in the pudding and now we will have to see whether or not the Act will succeed in addressing the problems. Many parts of the Act look like offering an improvement, although there remain potential problems, for example around the independence of adjudicator. If so, it will need further amendment in the future.

    Is the new Act perfect? Certainly not. Is it a step in the right direction? Definitely. Does it introduce a "new stealth tax"? Absolutely not.

    It's always best to discuss the facts, not the tabloid headlines that bear little relation to the real world. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Godot

    Godot Active Member

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  9. agatward

    agatward Active Member

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    Finally, someone who just considers the facts and doesn't react negatively to their whole life. :rolleyes:
     
  10. recycled

    recycled MB Enthusiast

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    phew .
    you need a PHD in law to drive a car these days.
     
  11. st4

    st4 Banned

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    and an equally good lawyer to get you off :bannana:
     
  12. robert.saunders

    robert.saunders MB Enthusiast

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    Plenty available, free of charge
     
  13. recycled

    recycled MB Enthusiast

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    so saunders, when is the order going in for the E63, with all the cash you will be raking in?:D
     
  14. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator

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    I heard on the radio today how much revenue is generated from motoring fines nationally each year.

    How much do you think it was... think about it 10 milion perhaps? 1 billion maybe?

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    41 billion pounds a year. :eek:
     
  15. Dieselman

    Dieselman Banned

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    That's approx £1366 per car per annum.

    You wouldn't have thought so many people would continue to be so stupid and keep breaking the law enough to pay that much.


    Takes all sorts...:rolleyes:
     
  16. mattc

    mattc MB Enthusiast

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    Imagine where the government/local authrities would get the money they "need" for those "must do" projects if we did not have this "tax? another form of revenue raising would be found - be very certain of that.
     
  17. robert.saunders

    robert.saunders MB Enthusiast

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    £14billion/£41billion? Issued "value" or paid income? I have never heard those figures before.

    Equally it's difficult to attain values for income due to the long life of a PCN from date of issue to eventual payment (to completion) can take as long as 18 months if warrants are issued for recovery
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  18. robert.saunders

    robert.saunders MB Enthusiast

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    To be honest, we like most other authorities outside London, will see revenue decrease due to the 2-tier penalty level.

    So, no, the E63 is on hold at the moment, although I may upgrade to a new Mondeo :devil: ;)
     
  19. Sp!ke

    Sp!ke Administrator

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    Yeah thats roughly the sum I came up with in my head - seems rather high unless I am missing something.

    Not sure if the sum includes the congestion charge.
     
  20. scumbag

    scumbag MB Enthusiast

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    Rubbish! Its another attempt to ruin everyones life at every turn! I think we should all kill ourselves in protest. They will listen then! You just try it and see!

    Then again, maybe I have missed the point as I lead such a dull and uneventful life, All I have to moan about is what the papers say and how it is a designed to affect me and nobody else. I am so hard done by I don't know how I sleep soundly at Night , i really don't. I even amaze myself!


    :D :D :D :D :D


    And the sun is out here but I dare not go out in case I die of some sun gotten disease. Mind you, when this Global Warming lark is taken care of, we will have no sun and live in PermaFrost anyway. Makes you wonder if I should make the most of it, before they tax me for walking instead of taking the empty bus that comes every 20mins pumping 200times more Carbon Dioxide into the atmos than a nice clean car, and all those smelly particulates that give children asthma!

    I am mad:rock:
     
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