About to buy a 2016 C350e or should I?

[Nomadic]

Evening all.

Just test drove a C350E and paid a £500 deposit. However reading the stories about the batteries being out of warranty I am nervous about proceeding with the purchase.

My first Merc.... But battery replacement is what is causing me to sweat.

 

[ioweddie]

Don't do it...just my opinion..based on gut feeling

 

[BTB 500]

Hi & welcome.

I wouldn't risk it personally.

 

[fabes]

Hate to say it but the 330e is supposed to be best in this class (Inc battery tech)
Toyota have the reliability and track record though (Inc Lexus) but and a big but, always CVT

What's the health on the battery etc

 

[Nomadic]

Not checked the battery health. Wanted an estate as have a family of 4 and wanted the boot space.

Think the Beemer has a similar issue with the battery warranty not being covered?

 

[clk320x]

What’s the budget?

 

[Nomadic]

20k

 

[grober]

5-6 YEAR OLD HYBRID TECHNOLOGY- NOT ADVISABLE-ANY MAJOR POWERTRAIN PROBLEMS WILL MEAN EYE WATERING COSTS.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I really really wanted to buy a 350e estate, or maybe a cough 330e.

But reading the experiences on here, I couldn’t see the point. The mpg is barely different to a two litre petrol, once you include electricity cost, and then you get the plug in faff on top.

So I’ve been running around in a two litre petrol 320i estate which gives me 40-44mpg. (Now in the process of being sold.)

Battery life is a red herring. In general terms, for all EV’s they’re no more exposed to extreme issues than you are with a diesel or petrol engine blowing up. Obsolescence is the hybrid issue: no one with want to buy a windows XP hybrid when the new tech arrives.

Want to save the planet? Drive less, walk, cycle and use public transport more. My annual mileage has dropped from 21k to 15k across two cars thanks to this and Covid-19

And don’t fly: a long haul holiday is the equivalent of a year’s motoring.

 

[BTB 500]

Not checked the battery health. Wanted an estate as have a family of 4 and wanted the boot space.

Think the Beemer has a similar issue with the battery warranty not being covered?

We bought an ex-demo 2019 C300 (petrol) estate, and have been very happy with that. No hybrid drive (the C200 is a 'mild hybrid'), 258 bhp so decently quick, and reasonable economy (43.5 mpg on a trip to Germany).

 

[BTB 500]

Battery life is a red herring. In general terms, for all EV’s they’re no more exposed to extreme issues than you are with a diesel or petrol engine blowing up..

Not sure I agree with that - rechargeable cells have a known & finite lifespan in terms of charge/discharge cycles, and are also also affected by usage style (number of fast charges, deep discharges, etc.). You will see a slow reduction in capacity right from the start, and when they're done it's game over. Internal combustion engines routinely make 20+ years, and any faults are typically fixable with a bit of spannering. Obsolescence is certainly an issue though as efficiency/range/performance improves in leaps & bounds.

Hybrids seem very much a stop-gap solution ... they will cease to exist (IMO) as soon as pure EVs (and the supporting infrastructure) have evolved a bit more. Apart from (possibly) in some bus/truck/van/etc. applications where long range and large payload is required.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Not sure I agree with that - rechargeable cells have a known & finite lifespan in terms of charge/discharge cycles, and are also also affected by usage style (number of fast charges, deep discharges, etc.). You will see a slow reduction in capacity right from the start, and when they're done it's game over. Internal combustion engines routinely make 20+ years, and any faults are typically fixable with a bit of spannering. Obsolescence is certainly an issue though as efficiency/range/performance improves in leaps & bounds.

Hybrids seem very much a stop-gap solution ... they will cease to exist (IMO) as soon as pure EVs (and the supporting infrastructure) have evolved a bit more. Apart from (possibly) in some bus/truck/van/etc. applications where long range and large payload is required.

Very good. Now there are plenty of early EV’s and hybrids around, many with spaceship mileages. Where’s the evidence that they are being scrapped in significant numbers because of batteries?

Here’s an example that’s done 250,000 and the owner still reckons it’s worth four grand.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale



Understand all the anti innovation / hybrid / EV rhetoric, which is half justified by the absurd EVangelist rhetoric, but when you’re buying a motor of three years it makes sense to just look at the hard facts about what you’re paying today, and how it’s going to work out.

And on that basis, today, I can’t see any justification for buying a 4-5 year old hybrid over its petrol equivalent. You’re not even “saving the planet.” If you don’t buy the hybrid someone else will. If you want to stop polluting the air around your kids’ school, try walking or public transport

 

[pmcronin]

Hi Nomadic - my 2 or 3 cents on this emotive topic ;-)

Firstly, usage model is key: mixture of urban/rural driving, hybrid is great. Lots of motorway driving - not so much. This is regardless of manufacturer, or hybrid type (plug-in/self charging)
Next up is the machine itself - try to look at it “without” the hybrid piece - do you like the car itself, how it drives, the toys it has etc etc. Would you buy that car if it wasn’t a hybrid? Then the hybrid element can be an added bonus
The charging piece - how much of a faff is it for you to plug it in and get value from the system? What’s the added cost, by the time you added wall box, or run cables and use granny charger? And what about the cost of your own time if you are having to run around the car plugging things in, park in a particular way so the charge point is in the right place etc?
Finally - the hybrid fail piece. This affects potentially all hybrids, regardless of manufacturer. At best, it will slowly lose capacity over time. At worst, you will end up lugging around 100kg of dead weight at some point. So is the nagging worry about this something that will disrupt your peace of mind with the car? There are a few services/companies out there who will rebuild the batteries - at some cost - but does the cost of this potential rebuild/replace cancel out any savings?

In the interests of full disclosure - I bought my C350e a year ago, it current has 57k miles on it, which I have driven 18k. My rolling average is 56.5mpg over that time, based on charging nightly, and during the day if convenient at work. I love the car to drive, superbly comfortable, loads of kit, and it has been bullet proof reliability wise.

Hope some of this is helpful

 

[Nomadic]

Being offered a warranty at £480 for 2 years from them to cover any issuee

 

[BTB 500]

Very good. Now there are plenty of early EV’s and hybrids around, many with spaceship mileages. Where’s the evidence that they are being scrapped in significant numbers because of batteries?

Here’s an example that’s done 250,000 and the owner still reckons it’s worth four grand.

What state is the battery in though? I've not researched it myself but I read somewhere that a high percentage of old Prius cars are running on IC only as loss of capacity in the drive battery doesn't stop them from operating. They are still a relatively practical & economical hatchback in that condition, so still have value.

 

[Nomadic]

Hi Nomadic - my 2 or 3 cents on this emotive topic ;-)

Firstly, usage model is key: mixture of urban/rural driving, hybrid is great. Lots of motorway driving - not so much. This is regardless of manufacturer, or hybrid type (plug-in/self charging)
Next up is the machine itself - try to look at it “without” the hybrid piece - do you like the car itself, how it drives, the toys it has etc etc. Would you buy that car if it wasn’t a hybrid? Then the hybrid element can be an added bonus
The charging piece - how much of a faff is it for you to plug it in and get value from the system? What’s the added cost, by the time you added wall box, or run cables and use granny charger? And what about the cost of your own time if you are having to run around the car plugging things in, park in a particular way so the charge point is in the right place etc?
Finally - the hybrid fail piece. This affects potentially all hybrids, regardless of manufacturer. At best, it will slowly lose capacity over time. At worst, you will end up lugging around 100kg of dead weight at some point. So is the nagging worry about this something that will disrupt your peace of mind with the car? There are a few services/companies out there who will rebuild the batteries - at some cost - but does the cost of this potential rebuild/replace cancel out any savings?

In the interests of full disclosure - I bought my C350e a year ago, it current has 57k miles on it, which I have driven 18k. My rolling average is 56.5mpg over that time, based on charging nightly, and during the day if convenient at work. I love the car to drive, superbly comfortable, loads of kit, and it has been bullet proof reliability wise.

Hope some of this is helpful

It is helpful. Yes I love the car as coming from Toyota Estate that rattles over the road.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Being offered a warranty at £480 for 2 years from them to cover any issuee

How does that compare to the cost of a 2 year warranty on its petrol equivalent?

(For comparison, from memory my BMW 320i BMW warranty is about £800 for two years - I bought one year for £400 and it's renewable)

 

[Nomadic]

It's Autoguard. Reviewing now seems to be a mixed bag

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

What state is the battery in though? I've not researched it myself but I read somewhere that a high percentage of old Prius cars are running on IC only as loss of capacity in the drive battery doesn't stop them from operating. They are still a relatively practical & economical hatchback in that condition, so still have value.

For sure, and have a premium as they are the automatic choice for taxi drivers. But £4k residual at 250,000 miles and 10 years compares well to any Prius equivalent, such as the A class.

Again, unless you're planning to own the thing for the very long term, is the long term relevant? Isn't it more relevant to look at why a C350e has lost so much value in its first four years, compared to its petrol equivalent, and then to project what will happen during your period of ownership?

.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

It's Autoguard. Reviewing now seems to be a mixed bag

Mmm, it's not specific to hybrids, but non-manufacturer warranties can be a chocolate teapot. I would never buy one, but other opinions are available.

But again, if batteries are "a risk," where are the examples of batteries dying at the kinds of mileage that you are expecting to drive?