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Acceleration curves.

iscaboy

Active Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
604
Location
Devon
Car
W124 E300 D (1991)
I drive a 1991 W124 300d with the 6 cylinder 12 valve non turbo engine, and 4 speed auto box, in which 1st is rarely used. Auto box is important.

Unless it is a hill start, I give it a whiff of throttle, somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 RPM depending on road, grade, etc, and leave the throttle there, the car accelerates away, changes gears, and before long you are exceeding the speed limit in town.

Up to around 30 mph wind resistance is essentially zero, and rolling resistance is also essentially fixed, so fixed throttle + torque converter + auto box = essentially a flat or constant acceleration curve.

In the real world, auto boxes are still rare in the UK, so the chances are that whatever is in the rear view mirror when you are stationary at a junction / lights / whatever is stick shift.

Stick shift by definition can't do fixed throttle, or fixed RPM, so the engine is all over the torque curve, all over the RPM range, and what happens to the guy behind in his stick shift is;

1st gear - he is up your ass, you can see it in his face, why is this idiot crawling off the lights?

2nd gear - he just dropped back ten feet, now holding distance, in his face finally the guy in front is starting to move.

3rd gear - now he is falling behind, he is asking himself why the tortoise in front suddenly decided to put his foot down.

4/5th gear, provided the section is long enough, now he is pedal to the metal trying to close the gap... and sees my brake lights come on as a coast to a stop, again steady decelleration, he has to brake hard, harder, jerks to a stop and the suspesnsion rises.

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Flip it around, I'm 2nd in the queue behind the stick shift, he pulls away in 1st, when he shifts to 2nd he is no longer pulling away, 3/4/5 and I'm reeling him in, start braking gently and early and he pulls away, then he brakes hard and late and we are back together again.

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I don't just benefit from a smooth "wafty" ride, less mechanical wear and tear, better fuel consumption, I am JUST AS FAST, even though it may feel slower subjectively.

The point?

Well, this

image002.jpg


and this

Twyn1.jpg


and this

funky%20roundabout.jpg


(all examples of traffic calming)

are all there to deal with drivers who do not use constant acceleration, and they are a pain in the ass, waste fuel, increase wear and tear, and increase noise and exhaust pollution.

and it will remain this way as long as automatics are in the minority, because the only way you can get constant acceleration with an internal combustion engine is with an auto or perhaps a CVT like DAF variomatic.

Except, give it a few years and we could well see as many electric cars as automatics, and if those electric cars are built properly with hub motors direct driving the road wheels, then constant acceleration is even easier to achieve that with my auto merc.

Oh yes, the first lot of electric cars will be range limited and recharge time limited, so will only be used in town, exactly where you find traffic calming...

So there are obvious benefits to efficiency, traffic flow, urban peace and quiet, the environment, etc.

The thing is, stick shift man is the last person on the planet to want to buy an electric car, for all the usual complaints, unless of course it is a Tesla roadster.

The thing is, if you drive a merc auto (silver E350 cdi owners need not apply :D) , you are likely to be an early adopter of electric cars, because your driving style is exactly the same.

So the adoption of electric cars is likely to be driven by factors other than those touted by those people promoting and selling electric cars, it is in fact likely to be driven by people who are used to a flat acceleration, and not people used to the combination of stick shift and IC engine.

I think the proof of this theory can be found in automatic motorcycles, only a few models were made, such as the Honda 400, and they sold abysmally, the antithesis of everything that a motorcycle is, revving through a sequential gearbox, but "auto" scooters and mopeds sell in vast numbers to people quite happy to bimble around on town and city roads and rarely exceed 40 mph.
 
with my car starting in second gear and always in E mode, I do not have that first gear scenario where he catches up with me - I am always accelerating away from him even with light throttle.

Most manual cars take longer than realised to change gear.

(E 320 Coupe auto).
 
1st gear is only because stick shift cars accelerate differently in each gear

Shifting%20Gears%20Graph.jpg


with an auto just fix the throttle and you get a flat graph up until wind / rolling resistance starts to be significant.
 
You seem convinced this is an Auto vs. Manual scenario?

Having driven many miles with both type gearboxes, I don't concur with the view that both have different acceleration rates. :confused: Auto has a little smoother gear transition, but manuals transitions are never problematic to traffic flow IMO.

Decelleration, yes, you have to use the brakes more on an auto.
 
So show me a graph / link / whatever to any stick shift car showing constant (straight line, not curved) acceleration from 0 to 40.

Just one.

If you're right, it shouldn't be so hard to do.
 
The type of traffic calming device in the second photo, is by and large ineffective since cars like we drive will straddle the hump and not impede progress one iota.

As for the auto v manual argument, in both cases it depends on who is driving whether it be auto or manual. I drive both and don't recognise the scenarios. If I press the accelerator on my auto it goes promptly and holds no one up. If I drive the manual I'm not looking for a Fangio start and so would not expect to be up anyone's ass ( except maybe Iscaboy:D ).
 
Up to around 30 mph wind resistance is essentially zero

I think you'll be hard pressed to find a cyclist who agrees with you, and cars have a much bigger frontal area than bike plus rider.
 
So show me a graph / link / whatever to any stick shift car showing constant (straight line, not curved) acceleration from 0 to 40.

Just one.

If you're right, it shouldn't be so hard to do.

They don't, but your assuming Auto's accelerate at a constant rate, and they don't either, you would have to have a CVT for that.

I am just saying having driven both, I have never noticed this major issue you are referring to.
 

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