Accident/Damage/Insurance....grrrrrrrrr!

[MooseMiller]

You can of course, maintain that your car is worth more than what they offered you, or that your far is worth more than other similar cars on the market, but this is down to negotiations. There's always a grey area when it comes to valuing second-hand cars, and additionally there's some give-and-take because in most cases the insurer will prefer to settle the claim rather than go to court over it.

This is all good accurate information. I'd just like to add that - certainly in my experience - there is less of a grey area to valuation than you may first think. When an insurance company makes a settlement offer, a significant proportion of claimants state that their vehicle is worth more than the offer. This is either because they really do feel that their car is worth more, or they are just trying to wring more money out of their insurers. Whatever... because of this, insurers will carry out a thorough and very accurate appraisal to provide a valuation and if you feel this is low, there is no negotiation as if you were buying / selling a car but you are essentially asked to prove it. 99% of the time, people cannot as a fair amount of time went into the original evaluation. If you took it to court you would also be asked to prove your valuation

 

[MooseMiller]

This has played out many times on the forum over the years and what I’m saying is not supposition; it’s a fact.

The at fault insurance company *legally* has to put you back to where you were beforehand irrespective of cost.

Not true in my experience

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Not true in my experience

I’m on about paying for the repair, not the actual valuation of the car.

 

[zipdip]

Well I read this thread early this morning and thought that that car with the side and two wheels needing repairing was enough to write it off,reading the latter posts the op has a emotional attachment to the car,and so this was never going to be easy,as posters have said his insurance company will get the damaged accessed and then bill the other insurance company who may well inspect the car and write it off,a shame but all these older cars run the risk of this happening,from what I know of crash repairs this must be over 2 grand maybe 3,I hope it works out for him but the odds are against him.

 

[markjay]

This is all good accurate information. I'd just like to add that - certainly in my experience - there is less of a grey area to valuation than you may first think. When an insurance company makes a settlement offer, a significant proportion of claimants state that their vehicle is worth more than the offer. This is either because they really do feel that their car is worth more, or they are just trying to wring more money out of their insurers. Whatever... because of this, insurers will carry out a thorough and very accurate appraisal to provide a valuation and if you feel this is low, there is no negotiation as if you were buying / selling a car but you are essentially asked to prove it. 99% of the time, people cannot as a fair amount of time went into the original evaluation. If you took it to court you would also be asked to prove your valuation

Agreed, though I was referring to the process of providing the insurer with examples of similar cars offered for private sale on Autotrader / eBay / GumTree etc.

The issues that create the 'grey area' in these circumstances are:

- 'Asking price' isn't the same as 'car value' - so how much lower would the cars on Autotrader actually sell for?

- The cars on offer are rarely 100% identical to yours, in terms of mileage, number of previous owners, FSH, desirable colour, etc. So the next question is how much should be added to - or removed from - the asking price to make it applicable for your particular car. For example, the car on Autotrader may have 4 previous owners, yours has 2 - how much more would your car be worth? Etc.

- Location. Some Autotarder ads that the insurer provided to support their original valuation, were from advertisers on the other side of the UK. My point to them was that I can't be reasonably expected to travel hundreds of miles to buy a similar car to the one written off, and that they should only provide ads for cars that are reasonably local to me.

Eventually we agreed on an amount which I thought was fair and I was happy with.

 

[MooseMiller]

I’m on about paying for the repair, not the actual valuation of the car.

Assuming the insurance company accepts liability they will be liable for paying for the repair unless they value the vehicle less than this cost, i.e. beyond economical repair or a write off in common terminology, in which case they will pay for the value of the vehicle

 

[MooseMiller]

Well I read this thread early this morning and thought that that car with the side and two wheels needing repairing was enough to write it off,reading the latter posts the op has a emotional attachment to the car,and so this was never going to be easy,as posters have said his insurance company will get the damaged accessed and then bill the other insurance company who may well inspect the car and write it off,a shame but all these older cars run the risk of this happening,from what I know of crash repairs this must be over 2 grand maybe 3,I hope it works out for him but the odds are against him.

If the OP has emotional attachment to the car and it is deemed beyond economical repair he is perfectly entitled to ask the insurance company as to whether he can keep the car with a subsequent allowance reduced from the settlement figure. However, the outcome of this would be entirely at the discretion of the insurer

 

[Dryce]

This has played out many times on the forum over the years and what I’m saying is not supposition; it’s a fact.

The at fault insurance company *legally* has to put you back to where you were beforehand irrespective of cost.

This has played out in the forum before.

The legal position is that a degree of reason - and if appropriate - loss mitigation - are required.

So if a car is worth X and the repairs would come to more than that then the courts won't automatically back a claim for more than X in repairs.

(From the insurers' perspective there may be incentive to settle a claim above the level that a court would cap the claim at simply to get the matter closed without extending other costs. )

 

[Mrbottomend]

Having worked in a body repair shop for too many years and subsequently as an insurance engineer, in my opinion your expectations are a little ambitious. In simple terms car insurance is provided to return your car to it's pre-accident condition or if costs exceed the value of the vehicle, reimbursement. Their responsibility to you is to repair and respray the damaged areas and not the rest of the vehicle, that would be your responsibility if you so chose, to polish or restore your 11 year old paint up to a standard you wish to see.
By your argument, if someone slightly dinged or scratched the very edge of your front wing, would you demand a full respray??

No, I would not if it was a mere dent or ding where the area was small and may be relatively un-oticed, but this is damage almost all down one side..hence I think partial respray will be far more obvious...anyhow, we'll see I guess...cheers for thought, even if not cheering!

 

[Mrbottomend]

Am genuinely very grateful for all contributions, however negative from my perspective. A range of views from people here really helps.

Looks like I may be into a negotiation with the insurance company (theirs) via mine, or direct if I feel mine are not working hard enough, and we'll see what happens.

I do appreciate the fact that my emotional attachment is not a legal cause, but hey, I can definitely say the car is irreplaceable to me! No one can argue that with me...

Cheers to all. I suspect the issue has been fully covered now so unless anyone has anything spanking new and helpful to say maybe leave at that till I can report back on the outcome. Or donations to the new car fund

 

[NJSS]

It may not help the OP until renewal, but I always get my insurers to write into the policy that I can retain the salvage, if written off, and an agreed value whenever possible.

You may find resistance to an agreed value, unless the car is "classic" or you can establish that your car is likely to be worth worth more than the average for a similar age model. This can be as it has "upgrades" or recently rebuilt expensive components, like the engine, transmission etc..

NJSS

 

[merc estate]

Sorry to hear of your agro. Right lets try and put a positive slant on this, 1 Hopefully you are ok and not injured 2 At the end of the day its a car and we all love our cars but again you are ok. 3 have a look how much a car the same or as near as can be are going for sale, as you will more than likely need this as bargaining power with the insurance its better to know before you start the process, so find the best ones as they will want proof. 4 Now you are looking at car have a look at a newer one you may find it will kick start you into a new future. I wish you well with it all, after all the panicking it may all be ok, stay safe and good luck keep us informed please.

 

[Deleted member 159894]

It may not help the OP until renewal, but I always get my insurers to write into the policy that I can retain the salvage, if written off, and an agreed value whenever possible.

I must be reading this wrong.
Are you saying that an insurer is prepared to rewrite policy wording just for you?

 

[NJSS]

In a word "Yes"- sorted through my brokers Footman James.

NJSS

 

[Deleted member 159894]

In a word "Yes"- sorted through my brokers Footman James.

NJSS

Are you sure that your broker didn’t just select a policy that already had that wording?

 

[NJSS]

Absolutely. It might have helped that I have 4 cars on the policy & have been with them for years with no claims.

NJSS

 

[markjay]

This has played out many times on the forum over the years and what I’m saying is not supposition; it’s a fact.

The at fault insurance company *legally* has to put you back to where you were beforehand irrespective of cost.

Agreed, though I would phrase it slightly differently:

The at fault insurance company *legally* has to put you back to where you were beforehand or pay you the equivalent cost, however high it might be.

 

[oldguy57]

Agreed, though I would phrase it slightly differently:

The at fault insurance company *legally* has to put you back to where you were beforehand or pay you the equivalent cost, however high it might be.

Exactly. What most insurance intermediaries (and you are usually dealing with them not the actual insurers) nowadays have no clue about, are the basic principles of insurance law and common law. Hopefully the OP, 4 months later, has sorted the matter out.

 

[Justintyme]

Having worked in a body repair shop for too many years and subsequently as an insurance engineer, in my opinion your expectations are a little ambitious. In simple terms car insurance is provided to return your car to it's pre-accident condition or if costs exceed the value of the vehicle, reimbursement. Their responsibility to you is to repair and respray the damaged areas and not the rest of the vehicle, that would be your responsibility if you so chose, to polish or restore your 11 year old paint up to a standard you wish to see.
By your argument, if someone slightly dinged or scratched the very edge of your front wing, would you demand a full respray??

Same opinion here, and from a similar background, Restore to pre accident condition is all they are liable for. And the colors can be blended in perfectly ( assumimg a competent bodyshop) So a complete respray is a big No No,( unless you want to pay the additional cost yourself.. ) But even if you still want to go ahead with a full respray, if I were you, I would not even think about changing the color. And this is because in the Factory, the bare body shell undergoes rigorous preparation before the final coats are applied. Every nook and cranny are perfectly cleaned and primed. No respray done after that will have the same level of preparation, and especially the "Nooks and Crannies", which is where the first paint chipping will occur. And nothing like a different color "grinning " out to show that the car has been re- painted, which always begs the question " how bad was it damaged". And of course, if you want to trade it in to a garage.....