Accident on Level Crossing

[davidjpowell]

Some of you may have seen the article last night about an accident on a level crossing near Doncaster.

This is very close to the village where my daughter goes to school, and until recently we passed over this crossing at least twice a day.

We've a strong suspicion given the timing that the little girl (who has now died) was coming from the pre-school that my daughter attended and my partner for a time was the chairperson (it's a small community run thing). She also recognises the parents names.

It's a horrible tragic thing, and so close to home makes it too real.

not sure what I am trying to say, other than be careful.

 

[219]

I just looked it up on the BBC website ; it is indeed a tragic incident .

I agree you can never be too careful on such crossings , and I always come to a full stop , looking carefully both ways before proceeding , even if there is no indication that a train might be coming .

It must be a nightmare scenario to break down on one of these crossings .

Without pre-empting the findings of any investigation into this incident , a lot of the traffic based TV shows do show some people taking terrible chances on them , despite TV adverts designed to shock .

The most common 'genuine' mistake a lot of people make is to proceed after a train has passed ...... not realising there is a second one coming . Always wait for the lights to go out / barriers to lift before proceeding ; if they don't it generally means there's another train due ( sorry , not meaning to be 'preachy' but perhaps not everyone is aware of this ? )

We get similar incidents with Fire Appliances where people move over for the first one , and pull back out once it has passed - only to be struck by the second one !

It is worth remembering that fire appliances often respond in multiples with two ( or more ) turning out to a job and the sound of the sirens can blend together - so do look out for a second one .

 

[davidjpowell]

This crossing is unusual in that the barriers go down only a few seconds before the train arrives. There's little point in taking the risk as your stopped such a short while only. Plus any four year old wants to stop for the train...

I'm not sure what happens if there is another train coming as it's simply never happened to me whether it stays down or goes up for the 30 seconds in between. It's a very quiet line.

 

[Martyn_n]

The timings on these crossings are mandated by law and they are checked annually that they comply with these timings. If they were to come down too early the risk of people jumping the lights increases thereby not helping with safety. The flashing red lights have a very different legal meaning to a red traffic light in that not even an emergency vehicle may pass, even on a blue light call, yet some people still disregard them. Even if the barriers do not come down (and I have only seen this happen once) DO NOT PASS THE RED LIGHTS.

A very tragic event but in my experience the equipment is rarely to blame.

 

[@MARK]

This crossing is unusual in that the barriers go down only a few seconds before the train arrives.

I'm not sure it's that unusual.

A lot of the crossings around me (in South Lincolnshire) typically come down no more than about 20 seconds before the train passes.

Sure they aren't high speed trains but it still leaves very little time if something goes wrong.

 

[219]

When I looked on the BBC news page , there was only an aerial photograph which was taken from such a distance that I could not see whether there were any barriers .

Some crossings have them , others only have lights .

 

[Dryce]

When I looked on the BBC news page , there was only an aerial photograph which was taken from such a distance that I could not see whether there were any barriers .

Some crossings have them , others only have lights .

It has barriers - the half barriers that only block the left and side of the road from each direction.

 

[Martyn_n]

From the photo you mention I could see that it was an automatic half barrier crossing. Both barriers appear to be broken off, possibly by debris but probably by the emergency services as they appear to be quite cleany cut.

Worst case scenario at a crossing of this type is that the train will arrive 8 seconds after the barriers are horizontal. This equates to 27 seconds after the amber lights illuminate. (As I say this is worst case, local conditions will mean that additional time will be added to most crossings)

If a second train is coming there is no visual indication other than the barriers stay down and the red lights continue to flash but the audible warning for pedestrians doubles in frequency.

 

[219]

I suppose another potential problem at this time of year is that people driving on icy roads may be unable to stop in time and skid onto the crossing .

Again , for the sake of clarity , I am not speculating what might have caused this incident .

 

[Martyn_n]

Also not wishing to guess at the cause but one thing that can be a seasonal issue is the sun sitting low in the sky masking the road lights. They are all things that will be looked into by RAIB and police.

 

[davidjpowell]

Also not wishing to guess at the cause but one thing that can be a seasonal issue is the sun sitting low in the sky masking the road lights. They are all things that will be looked into by RAIB and police.

Having driven down this road at this time of year and day with my then four year old daughter I would not be surprised to see this as an issue.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I agree you can never be too careful on such crossings , and I always come to a full stop , looking carefully both ways before proceeding , even if there is no indication that a train might be coming .

You can never be too careful - agree.
Come to a full stop before - disagree. The problem with doing this is that you have very little momentum by the time you reach the rails. If the engine or transmission fails for some reason you'll come to a dead stop in the worst possible place. My preferred method is to keep well back from preceding vehicles and approach the crossing at a speed that'll enable me to keep going if I lose drive, but still allow myself time to check both directions and accelerate or brake as appropriate if I see a train coming.

I treat level crossings the same as I do road junctions where the lights are green in my favour: I don't just assume nothing's coming the other way, even though it shouldn't be.

 

[Martyn_n]

These crossings a engineered in such a way that they will only show no warning lights if there is definitely no train approaching the crossing. They each have (at least) two fail safe methods of initiating the closure sequence, one of which effectively detects the absence of a train not the arrival of one. They are also on a very secure power supply, unlike traffic lights that you will usually see black during any power outage.

I for one do not look left and right before crossing but I see plenty of people who do.

 

[Stratman]

Something else I always do, even though it sometimes annoys the impatient photocopier salesmen behind me is to wait for the car in front to clear the barriers on the far side and has gone far enough so I can clear them too before I enter the crossing. I've seen cars tailgate through, only to stop on the rails because the front car has stopped for whatever reason.

 

[Dieselman]

My preferred method is to approach the crossing at a speed

I treat level crossings the same as I do road junctions where the lights are green in my favour

 

[davidjpowell]

My daughters teacher was one of the first people on the scene apparently. The girl who has died was the cousin of a child in my daughters (small) class. I'm going to have to talk to my daughter tonight I think.

Not looking forward to it. She's a sensitive soul and its bound to upset her

 

[219]

You can never be too careful - agree.
Come to a full stop before - disagree. The problem with doing this is that you have very little momentum by the time you reach the rails. If the engine or transmission fails for some reason you'll come to a dead stop in the worst possible place. My preferred method is to keep well back from preceding vehicles and approach the crossing at a speed that'll enable me to keep going if I lose drive, but still allow myself time to check both directions and accelerate or brake as appropriate if I see a train coming.

I treat level crossings the same as I do road junctions where the lights are green in my favour: I don't just assume nothing's coming the other way, even though it shouldn't be.

That would be all very well on crossings which are well sighted in both directions .

However , many are like the one where this incident occurred , with extremely limited visibility in one direction or the other . Railway lines are often bordered by high walls , hedges or , as in this case , with a building encroaching close to it .

I would not trust the absence of a warning signal as positive proof that nothing is coming .

 

[Dieselman]

I would not trust the absence of a warning signal as positive proof that nothing is coming .

If you drive fast you have less chance of being hit as you will be in the same spot for less time.

After all, it doesn't matter whether you are going fast or slow if hit, it's the trains speed that matters.

 

[Ian_Mac]

Speaking as someone who works in the rail industry and spends a lot of time working around level crossings you would be horrified by the number of people who stop their car in the middle of the crossing, look both ways then drive off.

 

[davidjpowell]

That would be all very well on crossings which are well sighted in both directions .

However , many are like the one where this incident occurred , with extremely limited visibility in one direction or the other . Railway lines are often bordered by high walls , hedges or , as in this case , with a building encroaching close to it .

I would not trust the absence of a warning signal as positive proof that nothing is coming .

With this one your blind. Trees on one side house on other and steep slope. Local theory is blinded by sun.