Advise - Am I being taken for a ride

[livingthedream]

Ok so firstly I may being speaking out of term, but I just wanted to get an unbiased opinion, as something doesn't seem right to me, so i'll try and keep it brief

Merc C220 2011

Nov 2018 - Car starts to make the odd rattle sound every now and again, sadly to what I know now I didn't think to much to it until came up to a roundabout, heard a horrible rattling (like a chain coming off a bike) but much louder, car grinds to a stand still, and the car won't start.

Next day contant a Garage which was round the corner, they assess it, and tell me it's a timing belt issue, but good news though is no other damage has been caused, so £300-£400 repair, damn it!!!! reluctantly i give the go ahead

Few days later, i get a call, after digging further they tell me there has been more damage with stretched chain, damage to guides and valves being hit, 4 bent inlet valves, the chain kit they have doesn't allow for front install so major strip down etc head gasket, head bolts, repair will be around £2.5K DAMN!!!!!!!

Thought about it, and really had no option but to go ahead, so repair done

A few weeks pass, and the coolant light comes on, don't think much of it, so top it up and carry on, a couple more weeks and light comes on again, think bugger, top up again maybe it's a leak? see how it goes, 1 week later on again, so searching about inside can't see any obvious leak, do a quick search online see if there's anything obvious I should be looking for, note a few people note that head gasket related issues that cause coolant loss etc so contact the garage, explain that not sure if it's related however seems coincidence that coolant loss right after the major repair which related to head gasket

Booked in a few days later, coolant needed updating pretty much daily for the next few days

Take it, garage calls and says we found the issue the Radiator is damaged and leaking coolant, £230 repair, losing the will to live now, again what choice did i have but go ahead, repair done

Week or so later guess what? Coolant level light comes on!!!!!! Can't be coincidence, contact garage, took it in today, they call and they need to car next week for a long time, they estimate the head gasket needs to go off to be "Skimmed" so about £45?

Can anyone tell me if any part of this story stinks??? Why if it's the head gasket now, was it pure coincident the radiator was leaking, is it related, can one engine issue cause the radiator issue

I know diddly squat about cars, I don't wish to sound like i'm pointing fingers but would really appreciate any input, I have basically said that there is no way I am paying anymore money, at £2.5K repair, I was considering calling it a day and throwing it away, so why do I feel like they are going to say "oh it needs another £2K doing to it" etc

 

[amazighman]

I would take the car to another garage and ask them to perform a coolant leak test where they put the system under pressure to check for leaks , they may also test your engine oil for coolant contamination to determine if it is a head gasket.

I personally wouldn't pay a penny more for fixing the coolant issue as it is clearly they have caused it

 

[BlackC55]

If its their head gasket that has failed then its down to them. I don't think you should have to pay anything.

 

[Martin 1]

I wouldn't go near them ! I'd love to know how you skim a head gasket ?

 

[grober]

I think they meant skimming the head. They probably used a pattern part head gasket- not a good idea.
TAKE YOUR CAR TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

 

[livingthedream]

The issue I my hands are quite slightly tied, If I give it to anyone else then as they describe they need to take the whole thing apart to get the head gasket skimmed (please don't take what I say word for word) I think thats what they said, but they noted there is pressure in the engine and they suspect the head gasket

If I give it to someone else then they have to spend time stripping everything down, so I can only allow this garage, I have made it clear I am not paying a penny more

 

[livingthedream]

I think they meant skimming the head. They probably used a pattern part head gasket- not a good idea.
TAKE YOUR CAR TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

But being over £2K down now, I am just paying hundreds to someone else, this garage in fairness is big, and have some major reviews, however I appreciate mistakes are made, I think what I am trying to wonder is why did the coolant leak come down to the radiator when now it goes back to the engine and head gasket

 

[livingthedream]

I wouldn't go near them ! I'd love to know how you skim a head gasket ?

yeh don't quote me word for word, it's like learning spanish all this, is it Skim the head as someone else suggested

 

[markjay]

I think they meant that cylinder head needs skimming, which cost £45, so it seems that they are willing to absorb that not-insignificant cost for the work required to remove and refit the cylinder head?

However, I would be worried that by charging you 'only' £45 for the skimming, and absorbing the labour costs they are planning on re-using the head gasket? Not a good idea, even if it's new - these things are meant to be pressed once.

And obviously, there's the overall concern regarding their competence, given the histiry so far.

In essence I can see why they are asking for £45 (because had they skimmed the head when it was off, you'd have to pay that amount anyway), but I would say tell them (a) that they should incur the cost of the head skimming by way of compensation for the trouble you went through in having to repeatedly bring the car in - one would have expected a reputable garage to diagnose all the faults while they had the car, and (b) I would insist that they use a new head gasket, at their cost (and try to be there and see that they actually do that!).

 

[livingthedream]

I think they meant that cylinder head needs skimming, which cost £45, so it seems that they are willing to absorb that not-insignificant cost for the work required to remove and refit the cylinder head?

However, I would be worried that by charging you 'only' £45 for the skimming, and absorbing the labour costs they are planning on re-using the head gasket? Not a good idea, even if it's new - these things are meant to be pressed once.

And obviously, there's the overall concern regarding their competence, given the history so far.

In essence I can see why they are asking for £45 (because had they skimmed the head when it was off, you'd have to pay that amount anyway), but I would say tell them (a) that they should incur the cost of the head skimming by way of compensation for the trouble you went through in having to repeatedly bring the car in - one would have expected a reputable garage to diagnose all the faults while they had the car, and (b) I would insist that they use a new head gasket, at their cost (and try to be there and see that they actually do that!).

Thank you, i think thats the sort of sensible answer I was asking for, as you say they are asking for the £45 to skim, which as discussed, it would have been charged anyway, and they have not said they are charging to strip down etc and it's their hard luck it wasn't done

They actually charged me for a head gasket it's on the list of what they charged me for

 

[livingthedream]

I think they meant that cylinder head needs skimming, which cost £45, so it seems that they are willing to absorb that not-insignificant cost for the work required to remove and refit the cylinder head?

However, I would be worried that by charging you 'only' £45 for the skimming, and absorbing the labour costs they are planning on re-using the head gasket? Not a good idea, even if it's new - these things are meant to be pressed once.

And obviously, there's the overall concern regarding their competence, given the histiry so far.

In essence I can see why they are asking for £45 (because had they skimmed the head when it was off, you'd have to pay that amount anyway), but I would say tell them (a) that they should incur the cost of the head skimming by way of compensation for the trouble you went through in having to repeatedly bring the car in - one would have expected a reputable garage to diagnose all the faults while they had the car, and (b) I would insist that they use a new head gasket, at their cost (and try to be there and see that they actually do that!).

Sorry Mark, also what's your take on the radiator repair, what bugs me is being whacked for another £230 to and I quote "check for coolant loss. Found radiator to be leaking" so end of, but now it's not, it appears to be for the very thing I told them I had found online, that coolant leakage can be head related?

 

[Joderest]

my advice, for what it is worth, the repair you had done would have some sort of warranty on the work, if the head gasket has blown again due to the head not being skimmed, that is the fault of the garage who performed the work and they should be putting it right at no cost to you, they should have checked the head for being flat before installing a new head gasket.
If they are a large well know garage, they will comply as they would not want any bad press.

 

[livingthedream]

In fairness there is no mention and I have made it clear I would at most pay the £45 which I will probably argue anyway, what confuses me is the Radiator, when the coolant warning came on I was going to take it to another garage, as I didn't really want to give this garage anymore business as I don't think they handled things very well prior, but as like anyone, jumped on Google to see what could be causes before giving it to another garage, when I noted a lot of people saying it was head related or head gasket related, knowing this was part of the original works, then giving it back to them to deal with as they said would be covered under the works

So take it after a conversation that it could be head related, to be told, no it's the Radiator, ie no it's not the head, to then a couple of weeks later be told, oh it's the head, then how did the Radiator repair be needed or can this be related? the sceptic in me kind of thinks were they hoping this masked the issue because what garage wants to strip the car down for the head at their own expense

 

[m80]

Why would a head need skimming?
Original problem was chain, likely sprockets and guides,
a lack of experience is shown already when they weren't aware that this lot is at the back, of what I'm assuming to be a 251 lump.

But the car was running well before the known issue regarding the timing chain occured.
No overheating, I assume, as it stopped and refused to restart.

My take is the chain, guides, sprockets in whater ever order went bye bye.
Garage removes head to replace faulty kit,
but for what ever reason the head gasket didn't seal.

I see no reason for the head to be warped, but always willing to learn.

 

[livingthedream]

But the car was running well before the known issue regarding the timing chain occured.

Yeh, no issues, I remember a couple of rattles and one morning it didn't start straight away, but otherwise no issues

I also mentioned to them the car, and this might sound odd, just didn't feel right since having it back, I'm not sure what a £2.5K repair could have done but the only way I could explain it is it lost the smoothness it had, can this be head related or whatever they need to skim

 

[grober]

Technically if the head had to be removed because of a valve train problem the head should not have warped [ no localised overheating] if it was removed and replaced using the approved technique---were the head bolts renewed for example? --- often these are of the "stretch type" designed to be deformed once only ---tightening by use of a torque wrench setting followed by an angular torque final adjustment. Coolant loss on those OM 651 engines is often due to the plastic water pump leakage.
As previously advised make sure the head gasket is the true cause coolant loss. Sounds as if the garage are trying to solve this problem by throwing your money at it!

 

[livingthedream]

were the head bolts renewed for example?

Theres head bolts on the item list on the invoice so yes

 

[AntMB]

Could be many reasons the head gasket has failed already, it could be down to the face of the block and head not being cleaned properly. It could be oil in the head bolt bores in the block, causing hydraulic lock when the bolt is tightened making the mechanic think the bolt is tight, yet there's insufficient compression on the gasket.

 

[Teego]

You need to be sure it is the head gasket. If it has gone the coolant will be contaminated. There is a sort of litmus test for this where the coolant bottle is dipped. Any competent garage can do this for peanuts.

 

[AntMB]

You need to be sure it is the head gasket. If it has gone the coolant will be contaminated.

Not necessarily.