Agricultural Diesels

[meeeb]

I was loaned a 62 reg. C220 CDI last week when I left my car for service at local main dealers, and I became aware of why some people refer to diesel engines as agricultural. It sounded primitive.

I was amazed at the difference in refinement between that and my 4 years old E Class 3.0, which is virtually silent when inside the vehicle with a warm engine.

The other aspect which was very noticeable was the difficulty that the car seemed to have in being in the correct gear. It was constantly changing and in some situations seemed to be impatient to get into the next gear up, and having got there had to change down again almost immediately, which, having very limited technical knowledge, I put down to an overriding economy criterion in design/programming of the gearbox. I felt that the seven speed box was not suited to the smaller engine, i.e. smaller than my 3 litre, which seems to be perfectly matched.

I have to say that if I'd been in the market for a new car and had test driven the C220, I could have been put off Mercedes-Benz and diesels for life.

Two extra pots seem to make all the difference.

I wonder of people who criticise diesels per se are unfamiliar with 'higher end' examples?

 

[wemorgan]

The 7sp in my SLK250 feels well matched to me. I'm yet to read of any motor journalists complaining of gear hunting in the 7sp either. Many say it's not as good as BMW, but that's another issue.

I guess you were doing mostly town driving, as that's the most significant time I notice the typical diesel engine noise, faster than that and wind/tyre noise dominate. Slower than that (stopped) and the stop-start tech fixes that issue.

Curious.

Keep with your 350 if you're happy with it

 

[Deleted member 37751]

You've actually encountered two minuses; going from the V6 to 4 pot and going from an E-Class down to a C.

Although having driven a 2.2 CDI W205, they're a lot quieter than the W204 but then it should be!

 

[Mrhanky]

You've actually encountered two minuses; going from the V6 to 4 pot and going from an E-Class down to a C.

Although having driven a 2.2 CDI W205, they're a lot quieter than the W204 but then it should be!

Agree it was always going to be less of an experience wasn't it.

 

[Dieselman]

I would agree with the O/p. The 4 cylinder engines are rough in a C class, but I recently had a B200Cdi and thought it was a petrol engine it was so refined.

I also find the gearbox works well in normal driving but when asked to kickdown it pushes the revs straight to the rad and holds them there for an age before changing up.

 

[flowrider]

I would agree with the O/p. The 4 cylinder engines are rough in a C class, but I recently had a B200Cdi and thought it was a petrol engine it was so refined.

I also find the gearbox works well in normal driving but when asked to kickdown it pushes the revs straight to the rad and holds them there for an age before changing up.

I thought the diesel engines in the A and B classes were made by Renault.

 

[theogeor]

I thought the diesel engines in the A and B classes were made by Renault.

Not the B200. It's a Mercedes 1.8. The B180 cdi use the 1.5 Renault engine

TG

 

[Minz]

I read a lot of road test reports before taking the plunge and purchasing my C220 CDI. Most of the reports commented on the noise of the diesel engine.
In my experience, I find the noise can be best described as 'gruff' until it comes up to temperature and then it is no noisier and certainly a lot smoother than most diesel cars that I have driven.
As for the gearbox, no problems whatsoever. The changes from gear to gear are so smooth and quiet that apart fom a slight blip on the rev counter, it's hard to tell when it's changing gear unless your giving it what for on the accelerator pedal.

 

[johns E350]

I have driven and owned aC220 CDI coupe and thought the engine was excellent. The gearing was fine although it was 5 speed auto
I now drive an E350 V6 coupe which is also excellent and has a 7 speed auto box it is smother and there is less noise but when new this car was £46000 so I would expect it to be. The only car I found the auto box was not right for was a C180 petrol estate.

 

[mr vandango]

Blimey, you've never driven a rover diesel then! Now that is agricultural!!

 

[V12]

Having driven a 13 plate A6 with the 2.0 diesel I was extremely surprised by how much quieter and smoother it was than the equivalent W212 E220cdi.

I hear that the MB unit is the toughest of the lot, but there is no excuse when the competition can turn out something so smooth.

Of course getting back into my old S320cdi I was pleasantly surprised to be reminded that it easily trumps all the much newer, 'lesser' diesel cars.

 

[Dieselman]

Blimey, you've never driven a rover diesel then! Now that is agricultural!!

Try a Morris Oxford with a Perkins diesel conversion...

 

[markjay]

Just a thought - as the gearbox is adaptive, and this was a loan car, it may have programmed itself according to previous drivers.

I am only mentioning this as a possibility , I have neither a Diesel nor a 7-Speed so can't really tell what is should be like.

 

[Dieselman]

Just a thought - as the gearbox is adaptive, and this was a loan car, it may have programmed itself according to previous drivers.

I am only mentioning this as a possibility , I have neither a Diesel nor a 7-Speed so can't really tell what is should be like.

The gearbox driver adaptation is continuous and only over a few minutes driving.

Boot the car and it reacts more quickly for a while, slow off and it becomes docile again.

 

[johns E350]

Blimey, you've never driven a rover diesel then! Now that is agricultural!!

No that is a tractor I suspect

 

[Dieselman]

No that is a tractor I suspect

It depends on what diesel.

A Rover powered by a Perkins prima will be "poppy", but torquey, one with a Peugeot/Citroen XUD will be pretty smooth, one with a Rover L series will be average.

the biggest reason for diesel engine noise transmission into the cabin is knackered engine mounts.
Diesels do take them out somewhat quicker than patrol engines, due to the additional torque.

 

[Markjames]

Blimey, you've never driven a rover diesel then! Now that is agricultural!!

I had a rover 420 gsdi a few years ago and yeah, it was bloody noisy, even more so by the time I had put 150k miles on it, but it was the gearbox that gave up before anything else. Replaced with an Audi a4 1.9 diesel and difference was amazing. That was then changed for the 2.0 deisel a4 which again was quieter still, quieter than the Mercedes 2.2 unit but no where near as powerful or torquey.

 

[del320]

When I posted recently about the Infiniti Q50 courtesy car provided whilst my C124 was being repaired, I was initially unaware that it was effectively a C/E220 engine and transmission under the skiin.

After some research following over 500 miles, I was astounded to find that in my ignorance, I had come to the same conclusions as just about every review of it and the latest C-class - that the 4 cylinder 2.1 diesel is raucous and unacceptably rough - (and IMHO complete crap)

I am frankly staggered that the might of Mercedes and Nissan should foist this engine off to an unsuspecting public in cars costing up to £42k.

Somewhere in my original thread, I unwittingly commented that it was indistinguishable - or even, worse - than a Transit. Such is "progress"

I would also mention, in passing, that at a well-known roundabout I had an OMG moment when I routinely endeavoured to enter the flow - and nothing happened, causing me embarrassment and the other driver some annoyance.

Both BILs have diesel Golfs (Mks 5 & 6) which I have driven and they are fine.