Air France Flight 447

[markjay]

Interesting article in The Telegraph today:

Air France Flight 447: 'Damn it, we’re going to crash’ - Telegraph

 

[flango]

The French could not fly a kite, Air France are one of the airlines I refuse to fly many 3rd world countries have a better safety record, total disgrace for a National airline

 

[Dryce]

Interesting article in The Telegraph today:

Air France Flight 447: 'Damn it, we’re going to crash’ - Telegraph

I love the bit "But there is another, worrying implication that the Telegraph can disclose for the first time: that the errors committed by the pilot doing the flying were not corrected by his more experienced colleagues because they did not know he was behaving in a manner bound to induce a stall."
​

Ah yes: 'the Telegraph can disclose for the first time'

As in 'pretty obvious to those of us who read the official reports' and well speculated about prior to the initial and subsequent reports.

The flight recorders just confirmed in detail of what had been widely assumed by anybody with half a brain and a bit of knowledge of aviation.

So the Telegraph wakes up to what a whole load of other people were well aware of. Duhhhhh.

There have been similar sorts of mistakes made by pilots in other incidents where there has been a minor problem or a loss of instrumentation and they get fixated on something.

This is nothing new.

The lack of physical control feedback is a valid issue - but it's a secondary factor. The fundamental one is that when pilots screw up in in this situation and lose instrumentation they should be capable of getting the aircraft into a safe state. And in several incidents with several types of aircraft that just hasn't happened (eg. two Boeing 757s have been lost due to a loss of valid airspeed information).

 

[markjay]

...(eg. two Boeing 757s have been lost due to a loss of valid airspeed information).

I am assuming you are referring to these two:

Aeroperú Flight 603 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Birgenair Flight 301 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[w124nut]

I thought that the article was interesting but very frightening. However it won't stop me flying.

 

[Dieselman]

Interesting article in The Telegraph today:

Air France Flight 447: 'Damn it, we’re going to crash’ - Telegraph

Bizzarely, I read that and watched a film about that and the Tenerife disasters, only yesterday.

You wouldn't think that experienced Pilots would make such mistakes.

 

[Dryce]

I am assuming you are referring to these two:

Aeroperú Flight 603 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Birgenair Flight 301 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes.

Flight 603 is one that I hold up as a particularly poignant example of how problem solving can go astray. It was eventually flown into the sea despite the ground proximity system working.

As with AF447 it was also at night and the pilots didn't have visual references.

 

[Dieselman]

The French could not fly a kite, Air France are one of the airlines I refuse to fly many 3rd world countries have a better safety record, total disgrace for a National airline

I'd give Aeroflot a miss too.

Airline accident ratings

 

[TDE1]

Bizzarely, I read that and watched a film about that and the Tenerife disasters, only yesterday.

You wouldn't think that experienced Pilots would make such mistakes.

Indeed. The below relates to the actions of an experienced pilot which led to a plane coming down. It was featured on Air Crash Investigations, and is a shocking tale of stupidity / poor judgment on his part.

Tape Confirms The Pilot's Son Caused Crash Of Russian Jet - NYTimes.com

 

[Dieselman]

Indeed. The below relates to the actions of an experienced pilot which led to a plane coming down. It was featured on Air Crash Investigations, and is a shocking tale of stupidity / poor judgment on his part.

Tape Confirms The Pilot's Son Caused Crash Of Russian Jet - NYTimes.com

I remember that one.

My dad let me drive his car a couple of times, off road, before I was old enough.
Doesn't really compare, does it?

 

[davidjpowell]

It's not normally one error though, but a chain of events.

Having said that in the case of 447 all of those events seem to be pretty close together.

 

[TDE1]

Was thinking likewise as I sent that, DM. 20mph on Pendine Sands was unlikely to result in disaster.

 

[markjay]

...and with no passengers.

 

[redbaron]

Air France is an amazing oddity - i wouldn't fly with them, loads of issues over the years, cover ups / blatant govt meddling. Bit like their motor industry really.

 

[Dieselman]

Bit like their motor industry really.

Can you expand on that?

 

[WesLangdon]

Stats don't tell the whole picture though do they, Aeroflot has had to modernise its fleet, Iran is under embargo for spare parts. Some airlines operate in dreadful weather conditions, tropical storms/extreme cold and many countries have poor facilities in terms of ground control and the airfields themselves. No pilot sets out to make errors any more than a motorist intends to crash his/her car. Air travel is still remarkably safe.

 

[flango]

I'd give Aeroflot a miss too.

Airline accident ratings

totally agree, Air france aeroflot and Turkish are on my "banned" list

 

[markjay]

BBC News - Russian passenger jet reported missing in Indonesia

Very sad business. Seems to echo an Airbus crash some 30 years ago while flying journalist on a demo flight.

 

[davidjpowell]

Anyone see the show on C4 tonight?

Interesting documentary.

 

[trapperjohn]

Nope missed it.