Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi

[Beetnik]

No it certainly isn't.

But there's a fundamental difference between a mistake and a premeditated act of revenge.

And that's missed by most apologists.

__________Airbus______Tomcat
length_____177 ft_______62 ft
wingspan___147 ft______64 ft
height______54 ft_______16 ft
speed _____515 mph____1,500 mph

Fairly easy mistake to make

 

[amwebby]

Try Britishness and you are getting close.

Exactly my point on the other thread.

 

[Colin_b]

Biggs and now this guy, I suppose its a way of curing prison overcrowding. Then they intend to spend our money protecting child killers. The problem is, we encourage them by voting for 'em.

That is what makes us better people than them, I think. Both Biggs and Al Megrah served what sentence the justice system was able to impose until impending death changed the sentence from punishment towards vindictiveness.

Protecting child killers is an unpleasant necessity, but preferable to them being hunted and killed by a vigilante mod.

Vigilante gang get life for killing 'paedophile' - Telegraph

 

[Dryce]

Dignity and decency are supposedly attributes that define Englishness, according to another thread. I remain unconvinced...

This isn't an English issue is it?

Unless you think Scotland is part of England. (And you wouldn't be the first person from England to make that confused assumption!).

HMG has basically said to the Scottish Executive - "over to you".

 

[Dryce]

That is what makes us better people than them, I think. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1461421/Vigilante-gang-get-life-for-killing-paedophile.html

I don't think letting Biggs play the system makes anybody better.

It just demonstrates lack of will by the Home Office.

And the same probably applies to MacAskill.

 

[Dryce]

I'll answer this out of pure badness because this sort of clever-cloggs naive response just p*ss*s me off.

__________Airbus______Tomcat
length_____177 ft_______62 ft
wingspan___147 ft______64 ft
height______54 ft_______16 ft

So you're an expert in radar signatures and cross-sections?

speed _____515 mph____1,500 mph

And for the record an aircraft with external stores (missiles and fuel) generally doesn't fly supersonic.

Fairly easy mistake to make

Yes. As demonstrated by fact.

Life is never as simple in a hot situation. So I hope you never have to make the decision on my behalf based on that sort of simple world view.

 

[recycled]

why is it a mistake when one side does it, then a crime when another side does it?

Should we start listing all the mistakes that are now war crimes depending on victor/ vanquished or who did what?

Looking at the evidence and a lot of it is out in the open, isn't it clear that that there is reasonable doubt especially from the bag seller?
I really do not think he would have been convicted if this was a crime against his next door neighbour but hey what do i know.

I for one do not know, but i doubt if 1 man alone can wake up in the morning and plan that all by himself. When the world and ythe press bay for blood, it is very easy for mistakes to happen and then 10years later when all has quietened down, say sorry and be let out through the back door.
Barry george anyone?park murderer too.

 

[wigs_1]

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Megrahi: 'A convenient scapegoat?'

Makes an interesting read, certainly casts a few doubts....

 

[rf065]

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Megrahi: 'A convenient scapegoat?'

Makes an interesting read, certainly casts a few doubts....

"But with Britain and America doing big business with Libya now, perhaps it is in no-one's political interests to have the truth emerge."

I think that says it all, really.

Russ

 

[recycled]

especially when oil is involved, business may be done with the devil. Anyhow i think it is a little bit more complicated than 1 man from 1 country. A bit like dallas

 

[Dryce]

why is it a mistake when one side does it, then a crime when another side does it?

So I make a mistake in my car that results in your car getting damaged.

Mistake.

You then take the huff and over a period of a year plan on wrecking my car. Then do it.

Not a mistake. Deliberate. A planned and premeditated act.

Now net result: Damaged cars. You might claim equality. But actual intent and premeditation was involved. Moreover what if you damaged a second car belonging to a third party - your 'mistake'.

The Vincennes vs Airbus debacle was between US and Iran. This is the alleged justification for PA103 being brought down which somehow involved the Libyans? A third party. And they brought it down over Scotland killing people in yet another unrelated country. Another third party.

So do the French take exception about the Scots being killed and shoot down an Indonesian airliner?

 

[recycled]

So I make a mistake in my car that results in your car getting damaged.

Mistake.

You then take the huff and over a period of a year plan on wrecking my car. Then do it.

Not a mistake. Deliberate. A planned and premeditated act.

Now net result: Damaged cars. You might claim equality. But actual intent and premeditation was involved. Moreover what if you damaged a second car belonging to a third party - your 'mistake'.

The Vincennes vs Airbus debacle was between US and Iran. This is the alleged justification for PA103 being brought down which somehow involved the Libyans? A third party. And they brought it down over Scotland killing people in yet another unrelated country. Another third party.

So do the French take exception about the Scots being killed and shoot down an Indonesian airliner?

.

If only you are 100% sure it really was what happened

Did the montgomery not identify it as an airbus
How do i know your action was a mistake? bearing in mind I took your people hostage and humiliated the head of your family for years and contributed to him losing his job as the world most powerful man



First you do not know if it involved libyans. You get that from the western press .
Second you do not know whether the airbus was an accident.
And go look at all the countries or people ever accused of war crimes. Coincidence?They are never from the countries that have been fighting the most victorious wars all over the planet.
Was KAL007 an accident .No that was a crime because it was done by russians.
Just be open and not be biased towards any particular country as you nor i have all the intelligence on this case.
Or as some would say.
We do not have all the facts

 

[recycled]

So do the French take exception about the Scots being killed and shoot down an Indonesian airliner?

Well yes actually. We took exception to attack in 2001 and invaded iraq

 

[nick mercedes]

Funnily enough nobody speaks up for the 290 people ( including 66 children ) who died that day. And the people chiefly responsible ------------- they gave them medals.
Life is seldom as black and white as we would like.

America kills innocent people, and it's just a bit of a mistake, Americans get killed and it's the worst crime imagiable...

 

[nick mercedes]

The Vincennes vs Airbus debacle was between US and Iran. This is the alleged justification for PA103 being brought down which somehow involved the Libyans?

Didn't America bomb Libya back in the '80s?

 

[LTD]

Not a lot of compassion here at the moment ...........

 

[Dryce]

.
Second you do not know whether the airbus was an accident.

The circumstances were rather more complicated than popping off an airliner just for the hell of it.

If the US downs an airliner the loss of face to them in the international community is the opposite of a country such as Iran.

And there's no reason to do it in a public fashion where it's obvious to everybody as to what happened. And you don't publish the details.

If that's the message required for the Iranians you discretely pop off some of their military assets. Much more loss of face. And if you care to do it publicly way more justifiable.

Was KAL007 an accident .No that was a crime because it was done by russians.

KAL 007 was different. The Soviets were not in a hot situation (the Vincennes was). The Soviets had plenty of time to identify the situation and take action. And the airliner had modern navigation equipment and shouldn't have strayed.

And the fall out of KAL007 was the Soviets looked inept and trigger happy.

A stupid mistake. More of a mistake than Iran Air 655.

And even yet the Koreans didn't appear to use this to justify putting a bomb in the hold of an Aeroflot flight.

 

[recycled]

I see. A stupid mistake. Funny the quote from the west was a crime against humanity, war crime .
lets see, you are constantly flying similar aircraft into another countries airspace constantly and spying on them and you think they would not be trigger happy and inept.?
And the chinese were trigger happy in 2001 too or was that also an accident to fly planes into their territory.
KAL was in a very hot zone. very hot ,

Face it no one can prove and certainly not you, whether iran was an accident. Other US ships, 2 others in fact identified it as an airbus.

I for one do not know and i am not ready to debate that, all i know is that inncidents Between those two countries are nothing new.
Pan am Evidence has reasonable doubt and is not compelling, and there are too many ifs and buts to make a solid case from the evidence.

Will not be the first time an innocent man has been put in jail or a guilty man has walked free and would not be the last.

 

[Administrator]

Please stay on-topic

 

[Colin_b]

I don't think letting Biggs play the system makes anybody better.

It just demonstrates lack of will by the Home Office.

And the same probably applies to MacAskill.

Biggs did play the system, and for a time won. He was convicted of stealing money, lots of it.

Al Megrahi was convicted of killing people, lots of them.

Ernest Saunders could teach Biggs a lot about playing the system, but he was a 'gent' so got away with it.

The point is that when justice turns to vindictiveness, it can get nasty, and serve neither justice nor the people who are supposed to be protected. There will always be flaws, and we need to learn from them and try to improve the system.

Whatever was decided here was going to be controversial.