Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi

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America kills innocent people, and it's just a bit of a mistake, Americans get killed and it's the worst crime imagiable...

The airliner fell on Scottish soil and killed Scottish people on the ground. They tend to be forgotten even by the Scottish and UK media.

The fact that the US becomes so self-important isn't just down to them and their self-confidence.

Every country tends to project itself and its priorities. However we in the UK are particularly dominated by their media due to historical, cultural, and linguistic proximity and the fact that our media cows itself to their media and politics. The UK has very little self-confidence these days.
 
If, and it's a big if in my opinion, this chap was genuinely guilty, and genuinely had terminal cancer, then I would agree with Grober, showing compassion is effectively sticking two fingers up at those who perpetrate such things, and is a powerful demonstration of a willingness to break the cycle of violence.
However, I suspect a deal was done with Lybia some time ago (they've been quite helpful lately), and given the record of the current government regarding telling the truth, the real facts are somewhat different to those reported in the press.
 
That is what makes us better people than them, I think. Both Biggs and Al Megrah served what sentence the justice system was able to impose until impending death changed the sentence from punishment towards vindictiveness.

Protecting child killers is an unpleasant necessity, but preferable to them being hunted and killed by a vigilante mod.

Vigilante gang get life for killing 'paedophile' - Telegraph
You are wrong colin_B, neither man has served the sentence passed on them, Biggs lived in South America and put two fingers up to this country and the man he and his mates coshed. He then came back to receive treatment he could not afford abroad. Over two hundred people who lost relatives and friends on the Pan Am jet would certainly not think that the sentence has been served. And as for child killers, I wouldn't have a problem with vigilante justice
 
I for one have no sympathy for murderers or criminals and should and must stay the sentence served, Ill health or not. Life should mean life and 20yrs is 20yrs.
My problem is make sure you have the criminal and not some scapegoat.
Then you have my full support
 
And the chinese were trigger happy in 2001 too or was that also an accident to fly planes into their territory.

The Orion was in international airspace.

A jet fighter collided with it while hot dogging. Just figure that. The Chinese still appear to claim a lumbering turboprop P3 was somehow agile enough to tangle with a jet fighter and deliberately hit it.:crazy:

How often did RAF Lightnings and Tornadoes and Phantoms get hit by Soviet long range aircraft during the 60s, 70s, and 80s while they were in international airspace off the UK?

KAL was in a very hot zone. very hot ,

It was in a sensitive zone. Very sensitive. But not a hot zone.

And the timing sequence over which it happened was rather more extended.

Face it no one can prove and certainly not you, whether iran was an accident. Other US ships, 2 others in fact identified it as an airbus.
It's an incompetent conspiracy when all three of the vessels involved don't concur in the misidentification.

The problem on the Vincennes was that they made a specific mis-identification that it was a threat and then with time running out they didn't break that threat mindset in time - if anything it reinforced itself.

That doesn't make what happened right. But there is a context to it.
 
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Sorry guys just my view:-

Whether i think it was right or wrong doesn't matter, just look at the facts.

You have to ask yourself the guy had two appeals pending, he was tried on circumstantial evidence and there was a right good chance that the justice system was going to be ripped to pieces because of this. The bottom line he didn't have a fair trial like you or me would expect, they HAD to get someone.

When Tony Blair agreed the prisioner transfer deal there was only one single Libyan, enough said. For them to stand back is purely political, would they do the same if Scotland had a Labour administration?

Its typical America, they think they can do what they want, blow innocent people out the air and don't do anything about it, cover up facts re 9/11 etc etc

The crap you hear on the news just now about serving 11 days for every life is pure spin that joe public likes to hear.

Do you honestly think the SNP administration would do this off their own back, wheres Gordon Brown the Scottish Prime Minister, has he been on the news today?

My view, it was already agreed before any of this.
 
Didn't America bomb Libya back in the '80s?

Yes. And they did it from UK airbases.

The Libyans also got up to some stupid nonsense in the Gulf of Sirte (twice ISTR).

And those nice Libyans also provided arms, semtex, and funding that were used to kill UK citizens.

It's a nice gentle world we live in.
 
You have to ask yourself the guy had two appeals pending, he was tried on circumstantial evidence and there was a right good chance that the justice system was going to be ripped to pieces because of this.

I thought about this and decided there is a simple test of this and it comes down to how long he lasts.

If he dies in weeks then no. If this was the situation then any savvy politician could get the process delayed long enough for him to expire before the appeal progressed.

If he lasts a lot longer and does an Ernest Saunders then you can assert this conspiracy aspect as having a bit more substance.
 
Yes. And they did it from UK airbases.

The Libyans also got up to some stupid nonsense in the Gulf of Sirte (twice ISTR).

And those nice Libyans also provided arms, semtex, and funding that were used to kill UK citizens.

It's a nice gentle world we live in.

I wonder who also supplied arms and funding to kill UK citizens, iraqis, contras,and just about every covert ops on the planet. Oh yes the others
 
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It's an incompetent conspiracy when all three of the vessels involved don't concur in the misidentification.

The problem on the Vincennes was that they made a specific mis-identification that it was a threat and then with time running out they didn't break that threat mindset in time - if anything it reinforced itself.

That doesn't make what happened right. But there is a context to it.

Who is talking about conspiracy. A trigger happy ship downs an airline. What conspiracy? It happened fact. misidentification or not?have you asked any iranian their views or are you satisfied with the report from the ships crew? If so then you are already biased but then as one earlier said, no one speaks for those dead in the sea . If millions die in certain parts of the world, who cares. One dies in other parts and its on national news.

Staying on topic, the evidence was not without doubt and that is not enough to send someone to jail for life.
If this was a briton/one of us jailed in china on this evidence i know what the news reports would say.
Lack of a fair trial, injustice served, e.t.c miscarriage
 
I wonder who also supplied arms and funding to kill UK citizens. Oh yes the others

There is a difference between a government that actively engages in such activities and citizens within a country carrying out such activities in defiance of their government.

Not that there aren't ways and means to circumvent official policies if you really want to - Oliver North comes to mind.
 
There is a difference between a government that actively engages in such activities and citizens within a country carrying out such activities in defiance of their government.

Didn't the CIA tool up Bin Laden?

Note how America is happy to sponsor terrorism when said terrorists are attacking America's enemies, but aren't quite so keen on terrorists when they start picking on America and it's interests...
 
Staying on topic, the evidence was not without doubt and that is not enough to send someone to jail for life.
If this was a briton/one of us jailed in china on this evidence i know what the news reports would say.
Lack of a fair trial, injustice served, e.t.c miscarriage

Perhaps. But the context would be unusual for one simple reason. It wasn't just Megrahi who was in the dock but also Libya. That means that our media would be looking at our government and its activities and not just the one man (or woman) in a foreign jail.

However one significant difference is that it is unlikely that you have journalists in Libya ferreting away trying to expose the details of their own government's participation.
 
One fact is patently obvious but not understood by most here.

Kenny McAskill has applied the law to the correct outcome.

Like it or not, it's the same Scots Law that affords the 'Not Proven' verdict that most of the world admire.
 
@ dryce. don't worry, with views like yours and all the laws being passed soon, it is going to be happening here soon and the press would soon be mute
 
One fact is patently obvious but not understood by most here.

Kenny McAskill has applied the law to the correct outcome.

Sadly that may well have been te case.

But if I had been in MacAskill's position and had deal with it then I would have simply stated unequivocally that it was the law and that no ifs or buts this is what was being done. No mention of higher powers and no excuses.

Like it or not, it's the same Scots Law that affords the 'Not Proven' verdict that most of the world admire.

I don't recall it ever being admired. It's a meaningless and often misunderstood legal aberration.
 
Nobody wanted his appeal to go ahead: could a Scottish court deny an appeal against a conviction based on vast swathes of "evidence" that had been subject to a Public Immunity Certificate issued in England and much of which was well dodgey anyway?

Nope. He would have walked on procedural grounds.

If the appeal had gone ahead then great risk that murky & dirty big secrets would have finally come out, the favourite suggestion being that Iran (bezza's with The US at the time of course because they were at war with Iraq) were behind it and the whole thing was a stich up.

Now of course we want to cosy up to Libya for the black stuff and all this all becomes a tad difficult. Enter Tony.

Just business....


"The Libyan known to the world as the Lockerbie bomber returned to his native country a free man after being granted compassionate release by the Scottish government, a decision that some believe has its roots in a deal made between Tony Blair and Colonel Muammar Gaddafi more than two years ago.

The notorious “deal in the desert” was a significant step towards Libya’s rehabilitation among world leaders after it was held responsible for the explosion of Pan Am Flight 103 in December 1988, and also helped to clear the way for BP to invest £450 million in exploring Libya’s vast untapped reserves of oil. The prisoner transfer arrangement that the leaders agreed was also the first indication that al-Megrahi could one day return home."


‘Deal in the desert’ put Abdul Baset Ali al-Megrahi on path to freedom - Times Online

Oh yes and Ronnie Biggs was just lucky in terms of timing: how could you keep a knackered old bloke banged up as a "danger to society" then promptly release a convicted terrorist mass murderer on "compassionate" grounds?
 
I don't recall it ever being admired. It's a meaningless and often misunderstood legal aberration.

It affords a retrial if further evidence is found. It negates the 'double jeopardy' situation.

It is not an aberration as it is a factual option.
 
@ dryce. don't worry, with views like yours and all the laws being passed soon, it is going to be happening here soon and the press would soon be mute

Since you point the finger? Which views 'like' mine?
 

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