All Mercedes vehicles to be Turbocharged by 2010

grober

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According to Thomas Weber, head of technology and research as well as development for the Mercedes Car Group: "All our vehicles will have turbocharged engines in series production by the end of 2010 at the latest." Slightly ironic from a company who once rejected turbocharging petrol engines as being too unreliable.;)
http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Jul08/...Vehicle_Range_To_Be_Turbocharged_By_2010.html
 
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I love the fact that some of their engines are supercharged - for one it's 'different', and for another, I much prefer the power delivery.
 

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grober

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It would appear that turbo charged engines are by definition more highly stressed than normally aspirated engines particularly with respect to thermal loading. Well developed engines should be designed to overcome this but we are talking about the demands of mini gas turbine technology here which may have more stringent maintenance requirements. Lets hope the servicing keeps up with the technology. Its one thing running an engine on a laboratory test bed for thousands of miles its another thing in the real world. As an example of this I believe SAAB were involved in a class action in the states with respect to engine oil sludging on their 9-3 9-5 turbocharged engines.
From WIKIPEDIA:_
Although modern and reliable, the B205 is considered to be less strong than its predecessor, the B204, and could be less suitable for extreme performance tuning applications[citation needed]. In 2005, it was announced that certain 2000-2003 B205/235 engines suffered from oil sludge-related failures. Some speculate that this is caused by the catalytic converter which sits close to the oil pan. The heat from the catalytic would cook the oil over time, resulting in oil sludge problems. However, the previous B204 incorporated this design as well, without the resulting problems. A more likely culprit is a combination two features new to the B205/235 acting in concert with the catalytic converter to produce a detrimental engine environment. First, a newer positive crankcase ventilation system (PCV) was fitted to the new engines which was poorly suited to the task. Second, a revised piston ring setup intended to reduce friction and therefore increase fuel economy allowed excessive combustion blow-by into the crankcase. The PCV system was not capable of handling the increased blow-by and these combustion by-products settled into the oil. These by-products quickly attacked the motor oil, aided by the high heat from the catalytic converter. As a result, deposits quickly formed in the engine. If not caught in time, these deposits clogged the extremely fine wire mesh at the end of the oil pump pickup tube, resulting in a loss of oil pressure. This resulted in several cases of rod bearing failure as well as other lubrication-related failures. The sludge problems can be repaired under a special extended warranty for 8 years and unlimited miles. However, in order to take advantage of this warranty, SAAB requires their oil change intervals te be met and receipts presented to verify this.
 
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oooooh I like turbo's
 

Dieter

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Hi,

Perhaps they're all going to be turbocharged diesel engines? ;) ;)

Cheers,
 
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grober

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Hi,

Perhaps they're all going to be turbocharged diesel engines? ;) ;)

Cheers,

Its certainly possible but it would seem at the moment the overall industry trend is migrating the technology developed for direct injection variable vane turbo diesel engines to small capacity petrol engines??:confused:
 

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I think the statement may be open to interpretation a little? It may mean that there will be options of a turbo engine in addition to supercharged +/-normally aspirated variants on each model/class, whereas there are many models with no turbo option at present. Interestingly they have only just deleted the B class turbo from the UK line up.
If it is a blanket turbo line up, then I agree it will be a shame to lose the kompressors.
 

Dragon

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Didn't Merc said it too expensive to manufacture Kompressor?

Most likely to be biturb as in the current BM5. Can't be single turbo as there is turbo lag problem.

Didn't I see CLS have biturb on it? It nothing new then or on the mainstream as what already got in A and B-class.
 

Mark300SL

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I am a big turbo supporter - but there is a lot into making highly efficient turbo engines run cool and extending lifespan

On average one of my fast road engines goes 30-50k miles before I pull it down for a rebuild, though to be fair these are highly stressed engines producing HP figures at least twice their original design capacity.

There is no reason why well engineered turbo conversions cant do 100-200k miles between rebuilds if the thermal characteristics of turbocharging are addressed at the original engien design stage instead of on my whiteboard :)
A couple of people on here went out in Adams Orange Mugen 1600 turbo conversion at the Bruntingthrope track day 3 odd years ago - Despite being a very quick performer on the track and drag strip it had completely stock internals with one of my turbo conversion bolted to it. 3 years later we have swapped the engine for a 2.0 version but the original was still in top condition, with no adverse signs of wear having seen over 40k hard miles. I am convinced that the engien would have done 100k with no issues and it wasnt even designed to be a turbo!

270hp, 0-60 in under 5 seconds, great track manners and 40mpg when driven carefully all from 1600cc's - those are the sort of figures that make manufacturers look towards turbos.


Frequent high quality oil changes, a good cooling system, & a decently designed positive crankcase ventilation system is all a well designed and built base engine really needs to survive turbocharging. I'm sure Mercedes wont have any issues :)
 

jonm

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I love the fact that some of their engines are supercharged - for one it's 'different', and for another, I much prefer the power delivery.

Ted, if I'm not mistaken the correct name for a turbo is a turbo-supercharger, so you will still have your supercharger ;-) Cant sort the power delivery though....

Yours sarcastically

Jon
 

Dieselman

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I am a big turbo supporter - but there is a lot into making highly efficient turbo engines run cool and extending lifespan

There is no reason why well engineered turbo conversions cant do 100-200k miles between rebuilds if the thermal characteristics of turbocharging are addressed at the original engien design stage instead of on my whiteboard :)

Frequent high quality oil changes, a good cooling system, & a decently designed positive crankcase ventilation system is all a well designed and built base engine really needs to survive turbocharging. I'm sure Mercedes wont have any issues :)

I agree with al that, but petrol turbos do fail before this kind of mileage due to thermal loadings and I wonder if Mercedes consider 100k miles to be too short a life between rebuilds.

As an aside to the thermal aspect have you ever taken any EGT readings off your cars.?

Slightly OT with regard to your post. SAAB have always had problems with turbo'd petrol engines with blown turbos and cracked heads way before the oil sludging issues.
 

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