Always thinking ahead

[st4]

As much as I love my C class tourer and its abilities etc I know I will not have it forever.

Autocar magazine reveals this

Maserati plans small four-door model | Autocar

Who here would consider one of these say over a new E350cdi or equivilent when it comes out. Fiat group now make some of the best new car engines on the market and with Chrysler behind them, the quality would be ok.

I think Mercedes are the bee's knees despite a love of bavarian cars and my admiration of the Mercedes marque has been born out having bought a third, even after my questionable ownership experiences of the E320cdi I had.

And for those after something smaller and more chuckable but a good comfortable everyday road car what about this

Alfa readies 3-series rival for 2014 | Autocar

if they made that RWD or AWD with a bias to the back, this would spell trouble, price it keenly or load it with kit and I could really see myself in one of these.

Question is can you.

Lets talk about cars. Better than spelling and grammar threads I would say.

 

[bpsorrel]

I agree with you about Mercedes. I love my CLS despite it's "troubled" start with me!

I'm looking forward to getting home and giving it a blast round the Chilterns! I'm also thinking of it's replacement - maybe - another CLS, but a facelift...dare I say it.... petrol!! Even, maybe a 500! Now I have my Hybrid, I could justify a second car with worse mpg and higher road tax... Hmmm.....

And, that Alfa looks promising! Being a looooong time Alfa fan and owner, I can't wait to see it!

Well done with the C by the way!

ps- Aviemore might be on our agenda soon as well as Dundee (I've got relations there) so maybe a meet up on the cards?

 

[st4]

I agree with you about Mercedes. I love my CLS despite it's "troubled" start with me!

I'm looking forward to getting home and giving it a blast round the Chilterns! I'm also thinking of it's replacement - maybe - another CLS, but a facelift...dare I say it.... petrol!! Even, maybe a 500! Now I have my Hybrid, I could justify a second car with worse mpg and higher road tax... Hmmm.....

And, that Alfa looks promising! Being a looooong time Alfa fan and owner, I can't wait to see it!

Well done with the C by the way!

ps- Aviemore might be on our agenda soon as well as Dundee (I've got relations there) so maybe a meet up on the cards?

I suspect like me you have a dog of a car. The C is amazing, its the dogs danglies (go on Jon, infract me for that, I dare you)

I'd fully recommend a 500 but if its the 5500cc M273 engine I'd research the timing gear issues and get upto speed. In saying that, your CLS may cause no more issues as you've fixed the biggest issue that can go on these.

These Alfas are giving me defection thoughts for five years time, that large saloon (grab autocar magazine as its featured there) has been axed but its stunning but the compact saloon in the links a beauty. It need back drive though.

If you are up soon (September the 1st) you'll not only get to meet me but a load of forum champions in Aviemore for lunch, or the Sunday as we'll be dining there.

Any other time, just drop a PM to me, and I'll pop up to wherever you are and we'll go eat. It would be good to meet you proper mate.

 

[LTD]

Question is can you ?

Let's talk about cars. Better than spelling and grammar threads I would say.

Wanna bet ?

I think you raise a great point, brand loyalty is now becoming a thing of the past with all the cross-platform sharing and multi-brand ownership by huge companies.

Factor in the general consensus that most dealer experiences are terrible apart from the actual purchase and you see why people are reluctant to go back.

Most people consider service time as 'how much are they going to 'find' wrong time - kerching !!!

Italian are often gorgeous and some of the nicest looking cars on the road. The Alfa Brera and GT are two real-world examples of how pretty the box on your drive can look.

A performance Maserati within grasp is a salivating thought.

So is a nice 645 Ci cabriolet mind, it's still well up on the list for me ..... a very, very pretty car that can press on as only a V8 will ....

 

[st4]

Well thats just it Steven, people are fed up with german car dealer servicing and an exciting new range of upmarket cars that are a bit cheaper may just steal sales.

Most cars sell on style, through in half decent car under the skin (and I suspect with careful engineering these will be more than half decent) and jobs a good 'un.

I know you love big cars with big V8's, but the sign of the times is people buying something more modest and downsizing. These latest engines from Fiat have impressive power and economy numbers to get "pilots" into the show rooms and signing the lease. A nice compact Alfa saloon for those like me, and those more flush, there is that big Maserati with company car pilot V6 diesel to get people out of E350's, 530d's and A6's etc.

I have a theory about your next car, something smaller and more chuckable but V8 powered is what you need. I'd hold out a while for an SLK 55AMG. I know we'll all take the mickey out of it, but I think it would be a bundle of fun for you.

Italian style, but this time with decent engines and bodywork and reliable cost effective engines, I can't see fault. I'm looking at JLR is a case in point.

 

[LTD]

I have a theory about your next car, something smaller and more chuckable but V8 powered is what you need. I'd hold out a while for an SLK 55AMG. I know we'll all take the mickey out of it, but I think it would be a bundle of fun for you.

The SLK 55AMG is a fantastic car but I'm limiting my budget to the £12k region - I don't think you'd get an SLK55 for that money (yet).

At £12k it ain't going to be a droptop Astra / Megane / Pug thing. That's for sure ....

 

[st4]

The SLK 55AMG is a fantastic car but I'm limiting my budget to the £12k region - I don't think you'd get an SLK55 for that money (yet).

Key word is yet. Hold out for one, summer is nearly over.

At £12k it ain't going to be a droptop Astra / Megane / Pug thing. That's for sure ....

Would you consider a Brera drop top (if they made such a thing).

not the most dynamic of things, but if you are looking at a big BMW 645i that might not be the biggest consideration here.

 

[C240Sport97]

Alfas? Still rubbish with no depth of engineering. sit in one, poke about, and you will see what I mean.

beauty is but skin deep with Alfas.

after all, they picked up the MB cast off that is Chrysler

 

[C240Sport97]

6 series BMW convertibles are soulless ugly tanks ..

not especially soulful V8, tanker like handling and ugly as well.

only good thing is that little rear window which doubles as a wind deflector

 

[LTD]

At least the Alfas need to be poked about from the inside.

Most MBs would become perforated if you poked about too much on the outside ...

 

[LTD]

6 series BMW convertibles are soulless ugly tanks ..

not especially soulful V8, tanker like handling and ugly as well.

only good thing is that little rear window which doubles as a wind deflector

'tis all about opinions ....

 

[st4]

Alfas? Still rubbish with no depth of engineering. sit in one, poke about, and you will see what I mean.

beauty is but skin deep with Alfas.

after all, they picked up the MB cast off that is Chrysler

You see, I am not sure that still applies.

Look that the 4c sports car, state of the art lightweight construction and one of the most advanced petrol engines presently on sale. Quite frankly, I think you need to consider one as your next sports car.

The old 159 Q4 used a 4wd drive system borrowed from Audi. Ever read about modern rusty Alfas.

Interiors aren't quite as nice as BMW and Mercedes ones, but they are ok. Poked about a 159, seemed ok.

Do a lot of buyers really care about depth of engineering, they care about style, iPod connectivity and monthly repayments with service packs.

Are Chryslers that bad, underneath its a W210 distantly and the engines are Mercedes (V6 diesel). Reckon they are worth a punt.

 

[st4]

At least the Alfas need to be poked about from the inside.

Most MBs would become perforated if you poked about too much on the outside ...

Pure comedy gold....

'tis all about opinions ....

I somehow thing you've already made your choice

Wanna do a pistonheads friday night session?

 

[gaz_l]

Fiat group now make some of the best new car engines on the market and with Chrysler behind them, the quality would be ok.

Hang on a sec, I've got to take issue with this. Yes, back in the 70's Fiat build quality was crap, but having had Fiats in the garage for the past 7/8 years I have to point out they've come on leaps and bounds. My 1993 Panda was a great little car and I only had 1 incident in 5 years - admittedly it was a head gasket - and that was caused by the cat disintegrating due to age. The Barchetta is a 1995 model and has its foibles but again it's 17 years old now and it's only minor gremlins, mechanically it's in great nick and has never let me down. It has no rust either, how many '95 Mercs can we say that about?

The Panda 100HP (2007) is properly nailed together, reliable, and aside from having no suspension at all is a proper modern supermini. We also looked at a couple of 500s before we bought the Panda and build quality on those looks up right up there as far as I can tell.

On the other hand, Chrysler are American and they turn out some dreadful stuff over the pond. Horrid, horrid, horrid - hard plastics, crappy engines/gearboxes/suspension, nothing to recommend them. I had a Dodge Grand Caravan (Chrysler Grand Voyager) as a rental in the States a while back and it's the most woeful thing I've driven in ages. They need to learn from the Italians, not vice versa.

I see in the UK the Chrysler Ypsilon and Delta are rebadged Lancias based on the Alfa Romeo Mito and Guilietta respectively, whilst the 300c and Voyager retain their US designations. More worryingly, I see in Europe that the Chrysler 200c (aka Sebring) and 300c have been rebranded as Lancia Flavia and Thema respectively, which is appalling! The Thema was probably best forgotten, being basically a jazzed-up Fiat Croma with only the 8.32 bringing something to the party with a Ferrari-sourced V8 under the bonnet but the Flavia was one of the last "proper" Lancias before the Agnellis got their hands on the brand. The name shouldn't be sullied by being placed on the back end of something even the yanks ridicule.

Well, you did say talk about cars..

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[C240Sport97]

the 4C sports car is still not on the road, so no one knows how good it is.

I'll stick with my Boxster for the moment, thanks. Proven platform, fantastic flat 6, mid engined, stunning interior, exceptional ride, handling and noise suppression. And looks good. And won't fall apart.

breras, spiders, 159s .. all rubbish.

Mito is only average.

300C was the 1 acceptable Chrysler as it was essentially a Mercedes. Everything else they built is rubbish .. that's why they keep going bust.

 

[st4]

Hang on a sec, I've got to take issue with this. Yes, back in the 70's Fiat build quality was crap, but having had Fiats in the garage for the past 7/8 years I have to point out they've come on leaps and bounds. My 1993 Panda was a great little car and I only had 1 incident in 5 years - admittedly it was a head gasket - and that was caused by the cat disintegrating due to age. The Barchetta is a 1995 model and has its foibles but again it's 17 years old now and it's only minor gremlins, mechanically it's in great nick and has never let me down. It has no rust either, how many '95 Mercs can we say that about?

The Panda 100HP (2007) is properly nailed together, reliable, and aside from having no suspension at all is a proper modern supermini. We also looked at a couple of 500s before we bought the Panda and build quality on those looks up right up there as far as I can tell.

On the other hand, Chrysler are American and they turn out some dreadful stuff over the pond. Horrid, horrid, horrid - hard plastics, crappy engines/gearboxes/suspension, nothing to recommend them. I had a Dodge Grand Caravan (Chrysler Grand Voyager) as a rental in the States a while back and it's the most woeful thing I've driven in ages. They need to learn from the Italians, not vice versa.

I see in the UK the Chrysler Ypsilon and Delta are rebadged Lancias based on the Alfa Romeo Mito and Guilietta respectively, whilst the 300c and Voyager retain their US designations. More worryingly, I see in Europe that the Chrysler 200c (aka Sebring) and 300c have been rebranded as Lancia Flavia and Thema respectively, which is appalling! The Thema was probably best forgotten, being basically a jazzed-up Fiat Croma with only the 8.32 bringing something to the party with a Ferrari-sourced V8 under the bonnet but the Flavia was one of the last "proper" Lancias before the Agnellis got their hands on the brand. The name shouldn't be sullied by being placed on the back end of something even the yanks ridicule.

Well, you did say talk about cars..

Cheers,

Gaz

On the other hand the new Grand Cherokee is a rather good car, ok a lot of Mercedes DNA in that car and thats going to underpin the Maserati SUV.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but Chrysler bring big car to medium car platforms and engines, Fiat really just make small cars and need to coshare with another group to develop larger cars. Its a shame the 159 wasn't more of a success. Bar Maserati there is nothing inbetween the small fiat group cars, and a QP form the Italian side of the pond.

Economies of scale need considered and platform sharing is the only way to achieve this, lets consider VAG here. Chyslers 300c is a fabulous car bar the interior, admittably it uses MB engines but they can use their learning from mercedes to develop a decent large car engine, or go to VM Moturi.

the 4C sports car is still not on the road, so no one knows how good it is.

I'll stick with my Boxster for the moment, thanks. Proven platform, fantastic flat 6, mid engined, stunning interior, exceptional ride, handling and noise suppression. And looks good. And won't fall apart.

breras, spiders, 159s .. all rubbish.

Mito is only average.

300C was the 1 acceptable Chrysler as it was essentially a Mercedes. Everything else they built is rubbish .. that's why they keep going bust.

I'd say a 159 is above rubbish and the new Guiletta hatch shows a lot of potential in the marque.From the Chrysler end, whats exactly wrong the any of the Jeep Cherokee's, a large Masterati SUV is to be based on it.

I'm not saying can your Porsche, but whenver you move it on, I'd not rule out the small Alfa.

 

[C240Sport97]

Jeep Cherokee .. have you driven one? Been in one?

cheap, nasty, American tat.

 

[C240Sport97]

don't understand the Maserati attraction either .. only the name is interesting.

interiors are low rent, dials are from Fiat, stalks are fisher price. engines are loud, but not particularly powerful

yet more Italian mutton dressed as lamb.

 

[LTD]

don't understand the Maserati attraction either .. only the name is interesting.

Driven one ?
Listened to one ?

If the ideal car was based on tech spec and measured performance then we'd all be driving around in GTRs

 

[C240Sport97]

I'd say a 159 is above rubbish and the new Guiletta hatch shows a lot of potential in the marque.

I drove a 159 sportwagon before I bought my CLS .. I was trying to get a sensible run about.

Completely underwhelmed me. Not especially sporty, poor ride, and interior quality not as good as Ford.

Design details also poor.

So, yes, rubbish for a car aiming for the near premium segment. Not anywhere near good enough. That's why it didn't sell, despite looking great.

Nice from a far, but far from nice.

Not checked out the Guiletta (which does look great, so can't comment there).