AMG ends horsepower war

JasM

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AMG is actively pursing a lower emissions policy for its future cars, the company has confirmed.

“The horsepower war is over,” said AMG boss Volker Mornhinweg.
“We are going to use other ways to extract better performance, including weight saving, engine optimisation and alternative technologies,” the head of Merc's performance division told Autocar.

Mornhinweg said that the new Mercedes E63 AMG, due to be seen later this year, would be the first beneficiary of weight-saving technologies.

See more pics of the AMG range
Watch the Autocar.tv video of the Mercedes E-class preview in Detroit

The new Mercedes E63 AMG will be lighter than the outgoing model and have the option of the manual wet-clutch gearbox first seen on the SL63, in order to provide more grunt with better economy.
Mornhinweg confirmed that the company was looking at producing a smaller AMG model.

“Mercedes is developing a new platform below the C-class which has possibilities,” he said.

This raises speculation that AMG is plotting a hot version of the next Mercedes A-class, which will be available as a coupe.

The AMG boss also hinted that diesel, hybrid and four-cylinder petrol models could also be on the cards, but that they would not be off-the-shelf solutions. They would have to be engineered to match the characteristics that customers expect from AMG.

http://autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Mercedes-Benz-C-Class/236890/#
 

Dieselman

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I thought The Boxfish was Mercedes new lightweight, low drag, high efficiency platform.
It's bigger than an A class.

Personally I think Mercedes are making a good decision with reducing weight and power accordingly.
To go 25% faster requires twice the power so is a hiding to nothing, reducing weight and drag give huge gains. Manufacturers have stalled in the aero stakes, in fact they have gone back wards as cup holders and stick on grilles became more important..
 
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Howard

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Ugly though :crazy:

So AMG are going to go from being the 'Sport' department to the 'Boring' department ? :(
 

tudu

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How strange, me and Olly were having a conversation this morning about AMG not going for more 'horses'. Thank God, no longer have to start saving for a 7.2 600bhp beast.
 

Dieselman

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Ugly though :crazy:

So AMG are going to go from being the 'Sport' department to the 'Boring' department ? :(

You've got it wrong.
Cars have got heavier and less aerodynamic so require more power to have the same performance with worse handling.
Reduce weight and drag to gain performance and more sporty handling.

Seems sensible to me, but takes more thought from manufacturers, which is why they've not been doing it.

The boxfish is a concept in aerodynamics for family cars to show that a spacious car can have low drag. There are better shapes which offer much lower drag and look more sporty but compromise space.

The aero race is about to kick off again...:bannana:
 

Howard

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But it's never going to cut it in the pub is it ?

'My cars lighter than yours .... '

:D

So if they design a 500kg car then they'll only need a 3 cylinder 1.2 litre engine to power it .... that's going to sound really meaty ....

An AMG 1.2L .... it'll sound like a sewing machine ... instead of a spitfire ....
 

Dieselman

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But it's never going to cut it in the pub is it ?

So if they design a 500kg car then they'll only need a 3 cylinder 1.2 litre engine to power it .... that's going to sound really meaty ....

Buy a sound generator if that's all you care about. Personally I'd rather have more performance.;)
If it weighed half as much and had half the aero drag it would have twice the performance of a current car per horsepower.

Does that make it better..?
 

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"Just add lightness" Colin Chapman
 

Howard

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Maybe ....

It's not all i care about .... but an AMG is an AMG , just as an M is an M , or a Type R is a Type R ....

It's all about power , so in the future , if you buy an AMG model , it will have the same engine as the bottom of the range , but weigh half as much and cost five times as much .... ? same old 2 litre ?
 

Dieselman

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It's all about power ,

Not to AMG anymore...

How much faster are all these cars for having big power outputs....nothing..note the Veyron was easily beaten by a lighter car on Top Gear.;)

Where did AMG say they weren't going to still have tuned, powerful engines...they just aren't going to keep trying for more power...it's unnecessary.

A Veyron generates MUCH more power and torque than an F1 car...is it faster.....Uh..oh..!
 

kth286

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Howard

think.............................. bph per ton........................then you'll get it.



Example:

AMG 500 bhp in a two ton car

OR

BMW 260 bhp in a one ton car.


On the basic facts above, then the BMW will be faster.
 

stumpy1

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think.............................. bph per ton........................then you'll get it.



Example:

AMG 500 bhp in a two ton car

OR

BMW 260 bhp in a one ton car.




On the basic facts above, then the BMW will be faster.

And then the cars ought to be cheaper to run as you won't need huge wheels to cover huge brakes to stop said 2 tonne car from 200mph
 

Dieselman

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Howard

think.............................. bph per ton........................then you'll get it.



Example:

AMG 500 bhp in a two ton car

OR

BMW 260 bhp in a one ton car.


On the basic facts above, then the BMW will be faster.
Not quite. On that premise the BMW would be quicker but run out of puff at high speeds due to drag, but if it had half the drag of the AMG it would be faster too.

If a car has a Cda of say 0.55 and needs 800bhp to do 200mph then one with only 0.27 Cda will only need 400Bhp to double ton.

In real world terms this means the first car needs 100bhp to do a ton and one needs 50bhp to do the same.

All it takes is effort.
 

Dieselman

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And then the cars ought to be cheaper to run as you won't need huge wheels to cover huge brakes to stop said 2 tonne car from 200mph

Which all add weight.......it has become a viscious circle...
A heavy car needs big brakes and heavier components, so needs more power, so weighs more........etc, etc...
 

Dieselman

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There is another way

And I didn't know F1 were introducing this to the cars, but have heard they are...
Anyone able to comment.??

Citroen rally car.
 

Adam230K

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Also if you noticed, they said they'd go about their sport cars in a "greener fashion". So i'm quite eager to see a 4-5L Twin-turbo replace the 63 engines, it will perform better over a certain rpm range, and be much greener then a huge 6.2L lump.

If they then slotted this new 4L TT engine say into a nicely shaped light car... we might start seeing AMG's getting into the same league as porsche and ferrari (i hope).
 

Adam230K

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Haven't you noticed that for a long time, these porsches and ferraris (even the top-end stuff like the enzo and GT) haven't got MASSIVE amounts of horsepower, its like 650bhp. And mercedes have that too in the CL/SL/S 65 AMG's. If they made a car with a smaller 'greener' engine, with the same performance or even slightly less then the 65 AMG engine... and slotted that into a more suitable car... we might start seeing a trend of 'real' sports cars from AMG.
 

Bobby Dazzler

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Haven't you noticed that for a long time, these porsches and ferraris (even the top-end stuff like the enzo and GT) haven't got MASSIVE amounts of horsepower, its like 650bhp. And mercedes have that too in the CL/SL/S 65 AMG's. If they made a car with a smaller 'greener' engine, with the same performance or even slightly less then the 65 AMG engine... and slotted that into a more suitable car... we might start seeing a trend of 'real' sports cars from AMG.

I'm not sure that AMG road cars have ever really been about being sportscars, they've tended to be what I would call hot rod cruisers.

They've not really tried to compete with Porsche and Ferrari as marques, although parts of the model ranges come close in places.

If you consider MBs model with an equivalent power output and price bracket to the Enzo and Carrera GT - the SLR - it was monumentally fast, but completely different in concept, the former being track focussed, the latter being road focussed.
 

Adam230K

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I'm not sure that AMG road cars have ever really been about being sportscars, they've tended to be what I would call hot rod cruisers.

They've not really tried to compete with Porsche and Ferrari as marques, although parts of the model ranges come close in places.

If you consider MBs model with an equivalent power output and price bracket to the Enzo and Carrera GT - the SLR - it was monumentally fast, but completely different in concept, the former being track focussed, the latter being road focussed.

I know they aren't about being sports cars... they're more-like cruisers with 'oversized' engines.

But it would be nice to see them actually start making proper sports cars... dont you think?
 

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