AMG ends horsepower war

[scumbag]

And I didn't know F1 were introducing this to the cars, but have heard they are...
Anyone able to comment.??

Will, you need more time in bed.

however, this might be of use to you.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I know they aren't about being sports cars... they're more-like cruisers with 'oversized' engines.

But it would be nice to see them actually start making proper sports cars... dont you think?

Personally, I would prefer to see them continue to make cruisers (albeit more environmentally friendly ones) - they're at the top of a relatively short pile for that.

If I wanted a sports car, I'd go to a manufacturer who's at the top of that much much bigger pile.

 

[Smatt]

Boxfish is a great idea & I applaud the concept & agree lighter, more efficient is the way to go.
Only problem is pig ugly looks- too similar to a citroen/renault...

Maybe we will start seeing AMG 32/36s again..

 

[st4]

And I didn't know F1 were introducing this to the cars, but have heard they are...
Anyone able to comment.??

Citroen rally car.

A diesel will out perform this.

I was reading in Autocar re the mitsubshi rally team works drivers for the Paris Dakar preferring diesel power as the extra torque makes pulling the car out of a slide and climbing hills easier.

What do rally cars do, 4 wheel drifts and jumps and climb steep sections of a road. A diesel will perform better than a crude push to pass system.

 

[Adam230K]

A diesel will out perform this.

I was reading in Autocar re the mitsubshi rally team works drivers for the Paris Dakar preferring diesel power as the extra torque makes pulling the car out of a slide and climbing hills easier.

What do rally cars do, 4 wheel drifts and jumps and climb steep sections of a road. A diesel will perform better than a crude push to pass system.

Diesels still lack that 'instant-go' power. Off the line they are very prone to stalling.. must be combustion related but i dont fully understand why this is..

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Surprised you say diesels are prone to stalling? Not heard of that before.

I used to love my Rover 220 SDi - put it in second gear at standstill, ease off the clutch pedal and she'd pull away gracefully without a throttle. Great for wet grass on camping traps.

Snr Dazzler has it now, 12 years and 130k miles plus and about the only thing it's needed was a window regulator. Great car.

 

[jeremytaylor]

The aero race is about to kick off again...:bannana:

And conveniently the new W212 E-class is the most aerodynamic production car in the world with a Cd of just 0.25. Yes, I was amazed too!

 

[jeremytaylor]

Diesels still lack that 'instant-go' power. Off the line they are very prone to stalling.. must be combustion related but i dont fully understand why this is..

Eh?? Diesels are almost impossible to stall. Due to their higher compression ratios.

 

[timskemp]

Older diesels had ridiculously low first gears and yes, were near impossible to stall accidentally. Out Toyota Verso needed 1500rpm on and a gentle clutch release, or 2000+ if you were in a hurry, or it would just cut. Off boost they have so little power at low RPM they stall easily.

 

[MikeL]

?

Who won?

Mike

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Who won?

VW

 

[popuptoaster]

Personally i prefer big cars with monster engines, but weight saving has its place, my old 100bhp mk1 escort weighed about 850kg and would leave my mate behind in his 210bhp Celica 4x4 rally special thing, it weighed nearly 1500kg and cost a LOT more money, my 24v Cossie powered Cortina weighed about 1100kgs which was giving 200bhp per ton, mucho fun to be had whatever you drive at that level or above.

It dont matter what AMG decide anyway, other compaines will step up and whck bigger more powerfull engines in same as they always do.

 

[popuptoaster]

Older diesels had ridiculously low first gears and yes, were near impossible to stall accidentally. Out Toyota Verso needed 1500rpm on and a gentle clutch release, or 2000+ if you were in a hurry, or it would just cut. Off boost they have so little power at low RPM they stall easily.

yeah i agree with that, everytime i get into my mates A4 TDi sprotline oojamflip i stall it, cos my cars all have big torquey engines and if i give em the revs i have to give his i'd just sit in a cloud of smoke or shoot off at warp speed.

 

[Dieselman]

Sorry Chaps but thermal efficiency says you are wrong.

These Guys agree.
http://www.boxerdiesel.com/engineering/en/index.html

Diesel engines generally provide more torque, but they produce more noise and vibration than gasoline engines, because combustion pressure created inside a diesel engine is twice as powerful as that of a gasoline engine...

Maybe because we didn’t have extensive experience in diesel engines then, and we didn’t quite grasp the essence of diesel engine performance, which is largely characterized by its powerful generation of torque. Even though, we did realize that the BOXER DIESEL should generates ample torque at low engine rotations of 1000 rpm

Obviously a small engine in a heavyish car is going to suffer but "ye canna disobey the laws o physics Captain "

 

[Dieselman]

everytime i get into my mates A4 TDi sprotline oojamflip i stall it, cos my cars all have big torquey engines and if i give em the revs i have to give his i'd just sit in a cloud of smoke or shoot off at warp speed.

That's because you haven't developed the diesel drivers sense of accelerator control yet, so you plant too hard. The VAG range are particularly quick acting, which can take some getting used to.

As there is no throttle to control air the only control is fuel so the available torque shoots up dramatically as you press the Go button.

 

[stumpy1]

That's because you haven't developed the diesel drivers sense of accelerator control yet, so you plant too hard. The VAG range are particularly quick acting, which can take some getting used to.

As there is no throttle to control air the only control is fuel so the available torque shoots up dramatically as you press the Go button.

A DSG equiped TDi can be a bit alarming. You tootle along and ask for a bit more power, press the pedal and nothing, a bit more and wham, down 2 gears instantly into the zone.............and into the back of the car in front. If I buy a VAG diesel again it will be a manual.

 

[Dieselman]

A collegue has gone from a string of Jag XJ/XK petrols into a CLS320 Cdi. He comented that he finds the power delivery all or nothing.

In a low torque car you just plant and wait but in a high torque car you get a real change of output quickly.

Our VRS is a real demonstration of this, it will chug along with no revs on at all, but then hit the button and you lose rubber...

 

[popuptoaster]

I have never got the hang of turbo engines really, although i can whizz along stirring the gearbox i much prefer these days to just gas and go, cant do it so easy in modern TD cars i find, his audi did have a higher torque rating than my 24v Cortina, but only when it was on boost i guess, i was thinking about whacking a turbo onto the 24v (before it caught fire. ) but i was gonna stay low boost and keep the CR up so i didn't lose the low down grunt it had off boost.

I'd probably get the hang of it if i was driving one all the time, but bigger is better in my book.

 

[Dieselman]

Off the line the turbo isn't boosting, it's just the transition from idle to high torque catches people out.
Normally the diesel will be running higher gear ratios through out as well.

 

[Adam230K]

Off the line the turbo isn't boosting, it's just the transition from idle to high torque catches people out.
Normally the diesel will be running higher gear ratios through out as well.

This is one of the reasons why i say diesels lack that 'off the line' go, and they can stall. The turbo is absent for the first few hundred rpm, but once its off, it'll deliver its max torque almost immediately, whereas a petrol will take slightly longer.

I compare my car sometimes to my friend's jap cars with big turbos, which are usually 2L engines. Mines a 2.3, but cuz its supercharged i have alot of my grunt available at almost no rpm. I can quite happily take off in 3rd gear (even done it in fourth with alot of give and take), and the car wont feel shakey or feel like it wants to die. In their cars, if u take off in 1st, put it straight in 3rd and floor the throttle, the car almost starts to 'cough' or choke, whereas mine will start to deliver its power without any vibrations.