AMG owernship experience

[alfl23]

A bit of a first world problem as you were, but trying to learn from my mistakes and gain insight from the lovely folks around here who've been through far more AMGs than I have.

As much as I'm an MB fan, I'm falling out of love with AMG in more than one way.

• Depreciation hit is absolutely insane. No matter how downmarket or upmarket your AMG is, 50 - 70% of the value will tank within 2 - 3 years. It's comparable with many cars sure, but I'd probably care a lot less if I bought a E class 220d that I intend to drive to oblivion for a decade. Right now I'll never buy another new AMG for as long as I live, 3 years old+ only. Money set on fire, and madness, they would have to drag me back kicking and screaming to repeat my stupidity, thank god their UK configurator has been broken for over a year.
  
  
• Reliability is very far from great, and sheer weight leads to a lot of wear and tear. Abnormally high number of replacements required for break pads, discs, number of times the car needs oil, rear tires requiring a change etc. I drive it pretty hard, but I'll compare to other things so this makes sense. Insanely high run costs and petrol. No other car has cost me anywhere near 50% of the AMG over the same time frame, which might be bad luck, but that statement is true even vs a McLaren.
  
  
• Brand identity near 0, which doesn't help with value hold. C Class, E class, A class, S class, same interior, same stuff, whether you pay £30k or £300k, Mercedes doesn't seem to care. Same quality of parts, same interior, same engine whether it's AMG GT Roadster or E63s, yet large unexplainable price gaps exist. It's simply not worth paying them the money basically, right now C and E have far more features than any S.
  
  
• Mercedes service quality is near 0. A lot of the time I'll take the car to service and they will return it with half the problems fixed, after keeping it for days. Always takes weeks to book in, always an absolute nightmare. Might be just cause London's super busy, but not fun.
  
  They never have any replacement cars available, and you're never seen on time, they are more than 1 hour late casually, for me that always means I have to leave and rebook. As a brand their current competence in selling and maintaining cars is zero, I absolutely hate going into the dealership and it's always a pain, not to mention very expensive. I wouldn't go anywhere near an AMG out of warranty base on the experience I had so far.

At the risk of sounding like a posh nosh, it's far far cheaper owning any post 2011 Ferrari than an AMG, by a very wide margin. Ferrari gives you 7 years full warranty and service included in any car you buy, used or otherwise. All you pay for is tires, mostly same size as your average AMG (20" 255/40 front, 285/35 rear), and insurance. Fuel economy just as horrible, high single digits to 20mpg motorway, if you're really trying hard to get mpg, but that's it. And pretty much anything under warranty, not a California/Portofino, will not incur any significant depreciation over 2 - 3 years of careful ownership. And that's buying used, if they like you enough to give you build slots that's basically guaranteed profits.

So dumb question, for financial sanity where do you get into your AMGs, age/mileage wise, and what's the average run cost/depreciation?

How often do you need to visit the dealership for repairs?

Would you buy an AMG again?

 

[WDB124066]

You have hit the nail on the head, IMO MB are the most unreliable car company on the planet since the W123.

They are the best marketing company on the planet though, and that's all they are, even their catch phrase reinforces this, "The Best Or Nothing" You get nothing, certainly not the best - by FAR!.

Hang your head in shame Dr. Z. the only people keeping you afloat are wannabee Chinese, that's why you design them to look so disgusting.

Why don't we start a list of all commonly acknowledged faults:

 

[Iggu]

I've bought new cars in the past but I wised up about 8 years ago and now only buy cars which are 2 to 4 years old. I've done this with my last few cars - all top end Audis, Beemers and the AMG. I paid £34k for my C63 with 12k miles on the clock and 2 years of warranty on it. I reckon I could get £27k now after nearly 18 months of ownership - so about £400 a month in depreciation. I'm still on the same tyres after 10,000 miles (just) and the car has only had one minor issue - the air con needed regassing. My ownership experience has been really good so far but car ownership (reliability wise) is all about luck. Sorry you have had a bad experience but you could buy any brand of car from a Trabant to a Pagani and have good/bad ownership experience - it depends on so many variables which when boiled down amount to basic old fashioned luck. The one thing you can control is depreciation hits - unless you are buying premium brands like Ferrari or Pagani then buying new is always going hurt. Overall I don't think AMG ownership is any better or worse than any other brand in its class - but I wouldn't include Ferrari in that class myself.

 

[WDB124066]

How many other brands crack rims at 38 000 kms on non pot hole roads...?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I’ve always said that I think the sweet spot to buy *any* car is two years old -

1. Already taken it’s biggest hit on depreciation.

2. Any niggles it’s had will have been ironed out

3. Still got a year of manufacturers warranty left

4. If timed correctly you can be driving about in a model that has saved you 30-50% as opposed to buying new, especially the new model

 

[WDB124066]

Buy a Toyota, Lexus or Century at any stage even with 350,000 on it and it will still run forever.

Like I said MB are the worst car manufacturer in the world today. Nobody else compares.

How's the air suspension, ready to collapse...? Then burn a pump out. Thanks Dr. Z.

 

[Iggu]

Buy a Toyota, Lexus or Century at any stage even with 350,000 on it and it will still run forever.

Like I said MB are the worst car manufacturer in the world today. Nobody else compares.

How's the air suspension, ready to collapse...? Then burn a pump out. Thanks Dr. Z.

Sounds like you've had bad luck.

 

[WDB124066]

No, very good luck it lasted 38 000 kms.

Seriously, do not buy a Merc they are crap and so is the excellent service.

They are cars for wannabe people and Frankfurt [the money people] will sting you for it.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

No, very good luck it lasted 38 000 kms.

Seriously, do not buy a Merc they are crap and so is the excellent service.

They are cars for wannabe people and Frankfurt [the money people] will sting you for it.

Maybe we should change the forum name from Em-be-club to Wanna-be-club?

 

[WDB124066]

Let's do this.

 

[WDB124066]

I think Frankfurt, Stuttgart and the med school at Hamburg are conducting a global psychological experiment to see how much they can rip you off just by using a clever marketing campaign. They even got the slogan spot on, The Best Or Nothing = brilliant if you ask me.

They then put some controversial Brit in a car on Sundays to drive round and round in circles to keep the masses entertained. Does it work for you...? You bet your asre it does!

 

[Gumball]

If you think merc's are bad for things going wrong, try owning a Range Rover .

 

[C43AMG]

Now, don't sit on the Fence

 

[alfl23]

I've bought new cars in the past but I wised up about 8 years ago and now only buy cars which are 2 to 4 years old. I've done this with my last few cars - all top end Audis, Beemers and the AMG. I paid £34k for my C63 with 12k miles on the clock and 2 years of warranty on it. I reckon I could get £27k now after nearly 18 months of ownership - so about £400 a month in depreciation. I'm still on the same tyres after 10,000 miles (just) and the car has only had one minor issue - the air con needed regassing. My ownership experience has been really good so far but car ownership (reliability wise) is all about luck. Sorry you have had a bad experience but you could buy any brand of car from a Trabant to a Pagani and have good/bad ownership experience - it depends on so many variables which when boiled down amount to basic old fashioned luck. The one thing you can control is depreciation hits - unless you are buying premium brands like Ferrari or Pagani then buying new is always going hurt. Overall I don't think AMG ownership is any better or worse than any other brand in its class - but I wouldn't include Ferrari in that class myself.

You wouldn't think to include Ferrari and AMG in the same bucket, and I think from a brand perspective you're largely right. The "entry" level Ferrari is not exactly price competitive with an A Class Mercedes. However at the very top end of the spectrum:

• £120k+ RRP as new for the top AMGs(Full spec C63s, E63s, S coupes, AMG GTs). Up to £200k, for V12 65s of any kind.
• £500 - £1k a month on petrol for any decent number of miles.
• £2k a month depreciation hit for the first 36 months of ownership, on any of the above.
• Assuming a lease with 35% deposit, and 3 - 5% APR, £800 - £1.1k a month to own it via PCP, not even talking about HP.
• Crap service, crap reliability, paying for everything.
• Rate limited at 155mph, have to pay £800 - £3k to remove limitation. WTF?!?!?
• Single digit to 20mpg. Not why you buy AMG, but again you get better or similar numbers in way way more powerful cars.

Summing up, 3 years of owning a high end AMG from new: £72k depreciation, £1500 for service costs, £36k lease. £7 - £8k a year petrol is not out of the question. If you sold after 3 years, your average run cost for a C63 to S63 will vary only by depreciation/lease, by a margin of say 40% from the above.

So £45k(C63) - £75k(S63) + £500 x 3 yearly service(£40ish pcm) + £25k(C63) - £36k(S63), £15k petrol, insurance on par with any Ferrari, and actually a lot more for most models. Total? £71.5k - £112k + not including petrol, in lease, service, and depreciation. I set of pads + 1 set of tires, add another £2300. Vehicle tax, congestion charge, and much more on top. A few k at least on repairs, service, and lost hours.

Ferrari F12? Got in £230k, 20k miles. £800 on tire package, not a penny more. Total problems: 0. Total days in service: 3. Insurance £100 cheaper. RRP today? £220k. Total cost of ownership over 36 months, including depreciation: 10k depreciation + 36k lease. It's because with Ferrari you're not afraid of making the jump, high deposit, low etc, if you have a faint idea of how to get in out and not buying a California, then done.

I'm not joking when I'm saying that, I have detailed logs for everything, and could chunk it all up bit by bit, car wash by car wash and mile by mile, and we'd work out having a low mileage used F12 for 3 years is half the price of a C63s. Which one would you rather have? I'm not trying to be a *****, not many people sit around with a few hundred k under the mattress wondering which Ferrari to get next, but I am saying Mercedes is a massive massive rip offs for any high end car.

 

[E55BOF]

I think Frankfurt, Stuttgart and the med school at Hamburg are conducting a global psychological experiment to see how much they can rip you off just by using a clever marketing campaign.

Like I said MB are the worst car manufacturer in the world today. Nobody else compares.

Touch of hyperbole there, perhaps? Either that, or your world isn't quite the same as most of ours.....Ah.

 

[markjay]

I’ve always said that I think the sweet spot to buy *any* car is two years old -

1. Already taken it’s biggest hit on depreciation.

2. Any niggles it’s had will have been ironed out

3. Still got a year of manufacturers warranty left

4. If timed correctly you can be driving about in a model that has saved you 30-50% as opposed to buying new, especially the new model

I buy my cars between 1 and 4 years old. Then keep them for 5 to 10 years.

In the past 20 years I have lost around £1,000 to £1,500 per annum on depreciation. Sounds very reasonable to me.

 

[Iggu]

You wouldn't think to include Ferrari and AMG in the same bucket, and I think from a brand perspective you're largely right. The "entry" level Ferrari is not exactly price competitive with an A Class Mercedes. However at the very top end of the spectrum:

• £120k+ RRP as new for the top AMGs(Full spec C63s, E63s, S coupes, AMG GTs). Up to £200k, for V12 65s of any kind.
• £500 - £1k a month on petrol for any decent number of miles.
• £2k a month depreciation hit for the first 36 months of ownership, on any of the above.
• Assuming a lease with 35% deposit, and 3 - 5% APR, £800 - £1.1k a month to own it via PCP, not even talking about HP.
• Crap service, crap reliability, paying for everything.
• Rate limited at 155mph, have to pay £800 - £3k to remove limitation. WTF?!?!?
• Single digit to 20mpg. Not why you buy AMG, but again you get better or similar numbers in way way more powerful cars.

Summing up, 3 years of owning a high end AMG from new: £72k depreciation, £1500 for service costs, £36k lease. £7 - £8k a year petrol is not out of the question. If you sold after 3 years, your average run cost for a C63 to S63 will vary only by depreciation/lease, by a margin of say 40% from the above.

So £45k(C63) - £75k(S63) + £500 x 3 yearly service(£40ish pcm) + £25k(C63) - £36k(S63), £15k petrol, insurance on par with any Ferrari, and actually a lot more for most models. Total? £71.5k - £112k + not including petrol, in lease, service, and depreciation. I set of pads + 1 set of tires, add another £2300. Vehicle tax, congestion charge, and much more on top. A few k at least on repairs, service, and lost hours.

Ferrari F12? Got in £230k, 20k miles. £800 on tire package, not a penny more. Total problems: 0. Total days in service: 3. Insurance £100 cheaper. RRP today? £220k. Total cost of ownership over 36 months, including depreciation: 10k depreciation + 36k lease. It's because with Ferrari you're not afraid of making the jump, high deposit, low etc, if you have a faint idea of how to get in out and not buying a California, then done.

I'm not joking when I'm saying that, I have detailed logs for everything, and could chunk it all up bit by bit, car wash by car wash and mile by mile, and we'd work out having a low mileage used F12 for 3 years is half the price of a C63s. Which one would you rather have? I'm not trying to be a *****, not many people sit around with a few hundred k under the mattress wondering which Ferrari to get next, but I am saying Mercedes is a massive massive rip offs for any high end car.

I completely agree with you at that end of the market. Spending anything over £80k on any new Mercedes / BMW / Audi type brand is going to feel like a rip off I think. Like spending £500 on a Marks and Spencer suit would feel. They just aren't worth that sort of money and the iron law of economics will drive residuals down to what they are worth very quickly. Ferrari models on the hand - they are probably decent value for money at £250k.

 

[markjay]

A bit of a first world problem as you were, but trying to learn from my mistakes and gain insight from the lovely folks around here who've been through far more AMGs than I have.

As much as I'm an MB fan, I'm falling out of love with AMG in more than one way.

• Depreciation hit is absolutely insane. No matter how downmarket or upmarket your AMG is, 50 - 70% of the value will tank within 2 - 3 years. It's comparable with many cars sure, but I'd probably care a lot less if I bought a E class 220d that I intend to drive to oblivion for a decade. Right now I'll never buy another new AMG for as long as I live, 3 years old+ only. Money set on fire, and madness, they would have to drag me back kicking and screaming to repeat my stupidity, thank god their UK configurator has been broken for over a year.
  
  
• Reliability is very far from great, and sheer weight leads to a lot of wear and tear. Abnormally high number of replacements required for break pads, discs, number of times the car needs oil, rear tires requiring a change etc. I drive it pretty hard, but I'll compare to other things so this makes sense. Insanely high run costs and petrol. No other car has cost me anywhere near 50% of the AMG over the same time frame, which might be bad luck, but that statement is true even vs a McLaren.
  
  
• Brand identity near 0, which doesn't help with value hold. C Class, E class, A class, S class, same interior, same stuff, whether you pay £30k or £300k, Mercedes doesn't seem to care. Same quality of parts, same interior, same engine whether it's AMG GT Roadster or E63s, yet large unexplainable price gaps exist. It's simply not worth paying them the money basically, right now C and E have far more features than any S.
  
  
• Mercedes service quality is near 0. A lot of the time I'll take the car to service and they will return it with half the problems fixed, after keeping it for days. Always takes weeks to book in, always an absolute nightmare. Might be just cause London's super busy, but not fun.
  
  They never have any replacement cars available, and you're never seen on time, they are more than 1 hour late casually, for me that always means I have to leave and rebook. As a brand their current competence in selling and maintaining cars is zero, I absolutely hate going into the dealership and it's always a pain, not to mention very expensive. I wouldn't go anywhere near an AMG out of warranty base on the experience I had so far.

At the risk of sounding like a posh nosh, it's far far cheaper owning any post 2011 Ferrari than an AMG, by a very wide margin. Ferrari gives you 7 years full warranty and service included in any car you buy, used or otherwise. All you pay for is tires, mostly same size as your average AMG (20" 255/40 front, 285/35 rear), and insurance. Fuel economy just as horrible, high single digits to 20mpg motorway, if you're really trying hard to get mpg, but that's it. And pretty much anything under warranty, not a California/Portofino, will not incur any significant depreciation over 2 - 3 years of careful ownership. And that's buying used, if they like you enough to give you build slots that's basically guaranteed profits.

So dumb question, for financial sanity where do you get into your AMGs, age/mileage wise, and what's the average run cost/depreciation?

How often do you need to visit the dealership for repairs?

Would you buy an AMG again?

1. Depreciation - I suspect most new AMG cars are bought with finance. This way you (generally) know upfront what it will cost you in depreciation, saving the nasty shock a cash buyer gets when trying to sell the car 2 or 3 years on. And you pay the depreciation (and interest) in monthly instalments, which is easier than finding a lump sum when trying to replace a 2 years old car with new.

2. I can't comment on AMG reliability because I have never owned a high-performance vehicle, but if AMG cars are significantly less reliable than similarly complex German cars such as the BMW M-Series or Audi RS, then you may have a point.

3. The point you make re repeat work is a valid one, it seems that good MB dealers are few and far between. This is not to say that there aren't any good ones, but sadly these tend to be the odd ones out. This is a thorny issue that MB have unsuccessfully tried to address over the past 20 years.

4. Re brand image, since MB decides around 10 years ago that they wanted sell much more AMG cars and dropped the price, they are no longer the rare sight they used to be. If you want exclusivity, you'll need to look elsewhere. They are still great cars, just don't expect to be the only one on the block that has one. This also explains in part the depreciation - there's a large supply of end-of-lease 2 and 3 years old AMG cars at the dealers every year.

 

[Alex]

OP, I agree with your frustration but I think your figures are rounded up/down to make for a more dramatic turn of events than it actually is.

Just out of curiosity I've checked how much F12s go for on AT.

- A 2014 car with only 8000 miles and £60k worth of options can be had for £179k. Given that they are £240k new that would make this particular one a £300k car (down to just over half in 3 years).

- And there's a grand total of 38 F12 in this country to choose from, including the LHD imports.

Personally, I think that luxury items depreciation is generally in line with one another. I.e. those who can afford them, buy new and change soon. Everyone else joins in the fun as soon as it meets their level of affordability.

Here's the car.

 

[french]

OP, a wise man said that Wealthy people do not buy expensive cars as they do not like to lose money...
Some fool called ,,, Warren Buffett