Amy Winehouse

st4

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What a load of cobblers.

Amy was a great singer but decided to be controversial and take hard drugs. She wasn't stupid and knew the risks, this time She went a bit too far.
You might argue that taking lots of hard drugs does err on the side of stupidity....
 

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MY Quote.
The only person who could change how her Dad feels right now is Amy.
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That statement has me baffled on several levels.
Only Amy could stop the drug taking.
Only Amy could stop the booze.
Unless we hear otherwise. Only Amy either OD'd or her body packed in on her through whatever she put it through.

Her Dad would have supported Amy in every way he could. And hats off to him. Just watching a daughter implode like that must have been soul destroying for him. And lets not forget he has been watching it happen for a few years now.

Therefore only Amy could change how her Dad feels right now because she could still be alive, perhaps back in rehab or on some sort of program to kick her demons.

All in all a sad story.
 

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MY Quote.
The only person who could change how her Dad feels right now is Amy.
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Only Amy could stop the drug taking.
Only Amy could stop the booze.
Unless we hear otherwise. Only Amy either OD'd or her body packed in on her through whatever she put it through.

Her Dad would have supported Amy in every way he could. And hats off to him. Just watching a daughter implode like that must have been soul destroying for him. And lets not forget he has been watching it happen for a few years now.

Therefore only Amy could change how her Dad feels right now because she could still be alive, perhaps back in rehab or on some sort of program to kick her demons.

All in all a sad story.
Thanks for the clarification, TJ - I broadly endorse your sentiments.

Perhaps I was taking your original post a little too literally, as quite clearly Ms Winehouse is now in no position to change how her father feels about her death, and had she managed to turn her life around he wouldn't be feeling that way now. As things stand, I'm sure there are many people close to him who can help him come to terms with his loss.

To those who have mentioned that a rehabilitation programme could have been her salvation, it's worth noting that she was undergoing rehab and trying to "get clean" at the time of her death. However, once it gets a grip, addiction is a very complex process to deal with. People seem to have the idea that if you check into a clinic you will come out clean after a few weeks and then all you have to do is to stay that way. But it is actually a constant battle, more psychological then physical, and its not unusual for addicts to resist or reject all the help they're offered because in their minds they cannot accept that the real problem lies with their substance abuse.

I have seen this at first hand, with a creative individual who could by no means be described as stupid. He is, in fact, highly gifted and intelligent, educated at King's and Christ Church and considered brilliant amongst his generation by his tutors, yet he cannot come to terms with life, so lives in his own, eccentric world where, for most of the time, he stumbles through, kidding himself that everything makes more sense when his mind is in an altered (or as he would say, heightened) state.

For many years I struggled to halt his withdrawal into this world where only he lived, yet it was an unequal struggle. Stints in specialist clinics also served little purpose, and were in some ways counter-productive as their formulaic approach to recovery can serve to ignore or even undermine the motivation of the patient. While I saw his addiction as something destructive, he saw it as his salvation. The annoying thing is that he was, to some extent, right, though this is by no means easy to explain to an outsider. Suffice to say that some of his most illuminating work has been produced as a result of achieving a state of mind that few of us would ever consider desirable.

These days, I still keep in regular touch with him, and at times it is possible to see glimpses of the person he was maybe ten or twenty years ago, but more often I find our conversations frustrating as he can be so divorced from reality that it's impossible to make him realise that little of what he says makes much sense. As he stumbles through his chaotic life, I live in dread of finding out one day that it has been snubbed out prematurely, yet he has thus far displayed an uncanny resilience and (to borrow a phrase from Iggy Pop) lust for life.

***, you're right about people of all ages dying day in, day out; that much is a matter of fact, and every one of those deaths is traumatic in one way or another for anyone who was close to those people. However, when someone who showed as much promise as Ms Winehouse is lost at such an early stage in their life, there is a genuine sense of tragedy in the realisation that we will never get to see what else they may have been capable of producing. Even with Lucien Freud, who died last week at the grand old age of 88, there is a feeling that the world is a poorer place for his loss as he was still productive and capable of giving more.

It's all too easy to sit in judgement on other people's lives from a position of relative stability and contentment. But far from having thrown her talent away, I believe Ms Winehouse was, in her own, perhaps misguided way, trying to get to a point where she could resume and progress her career. There were signs that she was indeed turning her life around: having broken ties with Fielder-Civil a couple of years ago and moved out of Camden to the suburbs, where she could live a quieter life, she seemed to have found some form of repose. However, she was never going to be able stay in Enfield for long, and her recent move back to Camden was seen as a sign that she was ready to make a new start, a view supported by the new musical collaborations she was embarking on. Unfortunately, she had clearly come to believe that she could not do that without the ongoing support of the drugs she had come to rely on. We have yet to learn whether the overdose that took her life was intentional or accidental, but I would say the latter is far more likely.
 

SPX

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^^^ An excellent post Mocas.

Having slept on it, I feel I have been too harsh in my assessment of the lass. She was one of the best singers that we have ever produced, yet for whatever reason, she took the path that many 'celebrities' take and has now paid the ultimate price.

The bluntness of my earlier posting is down to frustration and if I could edit them, then I would. Reading them back embarrases me slightly....


RIP Amy "We only said goodbye with words"
 

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The world might be a poorer place but she chose to be in that place. The kids in Norway didn't have a choice
 

MOCAŠ

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The world might be a poorer place but she chose to be in that place. The kids in Norway didn't have a choice
I think it's rather unseemly to try to play one death off against another. Each event was tragic in its own way, and it's futile to try and draw comparisons between them. If you found out that some of the children killed in Norway had experimented with drugs, would you then be saying that they were more deserving of their fate than those who hadn't? This is a dead-end argument.

There is little doubt that Ms Winehouse made some poor choices in her life, many of them reportedly while under the spell of her ex-husband, but I doubt she had much rational choice over her eventual demise - not in the way we would understand the term.
 

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Quite an ironic thing that Amy Winehouse's father should have become central to this thread about her death. Normally, if somebody famous dies, I would totally agree with the comments regarding their father ("only post things a father would want to read", etc.). However, in Amy's case, her father seems to have been part of her problem and eventual demise.

In a documentary that followed Amy's life for a period, it was very clear that her father (who pretty much ran every aspect of her showbiz life) was an addict in his own right - to the publicity, the world of showbiz and to the money. He has been widely critisised in the press for continuing to push her into the public eye rather than encourage her to retire from showbiz and concentrate on rehabilitation.

Personally, I liked her music enormously and think she was a rare talent. Others have an issue with her drug usage and I think it's absolutely fair that they should be allowed to voice those opinions on a forum (it's not like we're going to print the thread off and post it to Amy's family). Sadly, it appears Amy had two addictions that contributed to her demise, one to drugs and the other to her father's every whim.
 

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It's quite sad that this happened, but in the same week-end that more than 90 (mostly young) people died at the hands of another in Norway, it pales, not into insignificance, but a bitter perspective is drawn.
 

MOCAŠ

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It's quite sad that this happened, but in the same week-end that more than 90 (mostly young) people died at the hands of another in Norway, it pales, not into insignificance, but a bitter perspective is drawn.
Not forgetting the 32 who died in the derailment in China, where fingers are being pointed at government corruption resulting in compromised safety standards. And the thousands dying in Africa...

This is not a numbers game. The media might like to rank disasters by the numbers involved (and more usually by the number of Brits involved), but on a more human level, every death is a tragedy for those affected and a news item for the rest of us.
 

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The award for crass opportunism goes to NI-based number plate dealers Speedyreg, whose homepage currently features a photo of Ms Winehouse and a numberplate with the letters AMY. Click through to the related blog, and it states:

Looking for your perfect personalised number plates can take some time, however if your name is Amy then your search is finally over! AS06 AMY is exclusively available for sale through Speedyreg.

This registration would be make a perfect personalised number plates for the English singer Amy Winehouse. She is known for her powerful contralto vocals and her eclectic mix of various musical genres including R&B, soul, and jazz. She has received publicity over her substance abuse and mental health issues.
At first I thought it must have been posted before the news was announced, and that they were just a bit slow about taking it down, but no - a little digging reveals it was posted today. Words fail me.
 

st4

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Not forgetting the 32 who died in the derailment in China, where fingers are being pointed at government corruption resulting in compromised safety standards. And the thousands dying in Africa...

This is not a numbers game. The media might like to rank disasters by the numbers involved (and more usually by the number of Brits involved), but on a more human level, every death is a tragedy for those affected and a news item for the rest of us.
No, but consider that those in Norway and china had no input whatsoever to the situation, other than wrong place, wrong time. The consider what happened to poor Amy.

She would have known there is an "element of risk".

Its a terrible tragedy, and I can take your point regarding her "talent", however, is that too say that if I were killed (and I have no talents at all, trust me, I am remarkably inadequate and talentless) that it would be a lesser loss to humanity if I were to carp it tomorrow.

Seems a tad brutal to me. I suspect its because of her celebrity status, but sadly so many people are taken from this planet before their time, everyone of them a tragedy, somemore so.

I'll give an example of a young girl. 18yo. Off on a gap year around the world, you know the sort, back packer type. Off to uni to do medicine, folks had a big house in Buckinghamshire, minted. She goes for a swim in a lake in Africa, maybe not the wisest of moves, Hippo gets her. Dead. She might not have been a singer, but she would have left behind a family, friends and people that cared about her. However, there was not the "commotion" around this girls death.

Its the fame aspect. That's all.
 

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Although i have some sympathy - but my true sympathies are for the family who live on my road and last week saw their 7 year old die within seconds from an asthma attack -that poor kid didn't get a second chance -puts everything into perspective
The only song of hers i know of is "Bella Rain" -which later i found out was actually in fact "Valerie"
Prefer Mr Winwood's version
 

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The only song of hers i know of is "Bella Rain" -which later i found out was actually in fact "Valerie"
Prefer Mr Winwood's version
Different songs. The Amy Winehouse/Mark Ronson track was a cover of a song by The Zutons.
 

MOCAŠ

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No, but consider that those in Norway and china had no input whatsoever to the situation, other than wrong place, wrong time. The consider what happened to poor Amy.

She would have known there is an "element of risk".

Its a terrible tragedy, and I can take your point regarding her "talent", however, is that too say that if I were killed (and I have no talents at all, trust me, I am remarkably inadequate and talentless) that it would be a lesser loss to humanity if I were to carp it tomorrow.

Seems a tad brutal to me. I suspect its because of her celebrity status, but sadly so many people are taken from this planet before their time, everyone of them a tragedy, somemore so.

I'll give an example of a young girl. 18yo. Off on a gap year around the world, you know the sort, back packer type. Off to uni to do medicine, folks had a big house in Buckinghamshire, minted. She goes for a swim in a lake in Africa, maybe not the wisest of moves, Hippo gets her. Dead. She might not have been a singer, but she would have left behind a family, friends and people that cared about her. However, there was not the "commotion" around this girls death.

Its the fame aspect. That's all.
Broadly in agreement with you, ***. If you or I were to die tomorrow, I doubt that many would mourn our passing beyond our families, friends and other acquaintances, and that's how it should be.

However, I don't believe the fact that public figures receive more attention is just down to their fame or celebrity status, but more to do with the reason for which they were famous. In the case of performers and artists, it can be said that they touched or influenced the lives of many through their work, so the loss is felt much more widely, though not necessarily on a personal level. I'm not referring the overblown outpourings seen in the wake of Diana, Princess of Wales's death, but more a feeling of sadness that a light that once shone brightly has gone out, never to be reignited. On the other hand, those who are famous merely for being famous, thanks largely to the plethora of reality TV shows, are unlikely to garner much more attention in their passing than would you or I.
 

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Being the parent of an addict, I can feel empathy with her family. The joy of her success, and the despair at her ultimate failure. She was a very talented musician that appealed on many levels. Tragically, she failed to grasp the benefits of success, just the negative fame and lifestyle elements.

I've spent the last 10 years expecting the police to knock at the door with bad news. So far the bad news has been only convictions, not the can you identify ones. You can only try and keep trying to do the right things, there is no promise of success.

Such a pointless, prolonged waste of young talent.
 

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I've been considering my response to this for a while - although not my cup of tea, I can recognise the talent and the waste of life.

I lost a very good friend and fellow musician a few months back, who too went down the road of addiction and obsessive behaviour. We'd played in bands since our early teens and while he decided to go down the professional route I knew that my addictive personality type would not survive.

Music - and other arts - is not just a job. It's about opening your soul to others (which is why IMHO most popular acts today just don't cut it). Often the inspiration comes from background tragedy or hardship (similar to comics is that regard) and having to re-live that every time you go on stage in order to give the best in terms of performance takes everything out of you. It's something that every decent musician I've ever met has in common.

Some are lucky enough to be able to fill the hole with the support of a loving family. However, so many are surrounded by self-seeking hangers-on that they retreat into other things that provide protection from the reality they have to face. It's so sad that the thing that makes such people the fantastic talent that they are is the same thing that can ruin them too.

It's a vain hope, but perhaps the best epitaph she could have would be managers, publicists and the like taking five minutes out to think about what they are doing to really support the talent thay are supposed to look after.
 

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