Another HR Conundrum

[markjay]

So here goes....

Where my friend Dave works they have recently employed a person (female) for a part time job.

A few weeks later, she emails Dave a sick note. Then another. Then another. Currently she is covered by sick notes for some time ahead.

Then she informs Dave that she is pregnant. It is not clear if her illness is related, but it does not really matter anyway.

So far nothing special really. It's a workplace, and things happen.

Come salary pay-day, the external bureau that processes the salaries for Dave are saying that she in not entitled to SSP because her weekly earnings are below the SSP threshold. What Dave should do is give her formal notice to this effect, which will allow her to claim SSP off her local Job Centre instead.

The lady says she is unable to retrospectively claim SSP at the Job centre, and that Dave should have told her early-on that she was not entitled to SSP. Therefore, Dave is liable for the 'lost' SSP that she is no longer able to claim. Dave says that he was only made aware that she was not eligible for SSP when the wages were processed at the end of the month, so could not have informed her before.

HR consultants firm says Dave has no legal obligation in this matter, though he can obviously choose to make goodwill payment in the interest of maintaining good relationship with the employee, in spite of the fact that the employee has only worked so far part time for a couple of weeks, and is not likely to come back to work any time soon (off sick + one year maternity leave).

So what would you advise Dave?

 

[Ted]

My friend Dave says Dave sack the freeloading cow as she hasn't worked for you long enough to need a reason for dismissal.

 

[renault12ts]

Make a goodwill payment.

 

[Red C220]

What does the SSP add up to for the period that she is unable to claim?

If it's not much I'd be inclined to pay it and wish her good luck and goodbye.

 

[ftb]

Who's baby is it? Dave's?

 

[markjay]

Who's baby is it? Dave's?

Goodness, no....

 

[markjay]

What does the SSP add up to for the period that she is unable to claim?

~£400

...If it's not much I'd be inclined to pay it and wish her good luck and goodbye.

No can do - the lady is pregnant, she has the right to come back to work any time she chooses between now and childbirth, and then she can take up to one year maternity leave. So she'll be staying of Dave's books for the foreseeable future.

 

[bob6600]

My friend Dave says Dave sack the freeloading cow as she hasn't worked for you long enough to need a reason for dismissal.

^^This, but in vvThis way

If it's not much I'd be inclined to pay it and wish her good luck and goodbye.

 

[markjay]

My friend Dave says Dave sack the freeloading cow as she hasn't worked for you long enough to need a reason for dismissal.

Dave has only seen her once in passing and have never spoken to her so he is not really in position to pass any judgement.

As for dismissal... not an option, the lady is about to bring a child into this world and both she and her offspring are therefore protected from such hardships as may befall her male colleagues.

 

[bob6600]

Can she not be dismissed for not fulfilling her contractual hours in the first few weeks?

Find out how pregnant she is, is she failed to inform Dave she was pregnant, enough for dismissal?

 

[markjay]

Can she not be dismissed for not fulfilling her contractual hours in the first few weeks?

Find out how pregnant she is, is she failed to inform Dave she was pregnant, enough for dismissal?

No and No.

 

[Yugguy]

NO - she did not have any legal need to disclose her pregnancy. It should have been spotted by the interviewer.

 

[markjay]

It would seem that Dave's option are as follows:

'Tough' - i.e. fulfil his minimum legal obligations under employment law

'Investigate' - spend some time in finding out if it is indeed the case that the job centre wont reimburse her for past SSP

'Pay-up' - just pay her what her what she is asking for which should keep things quite until she gives birth

As for dismissal.... HR people say a deep new bond has just been created between the pregnant employee and her new workplace, and one which will not be severed any time soon, hence dismissal is off the table.

 

[Red C220]

As for dismissal.... HR people say a deep new bond has just been created between the pregnant employee and her new workplace, and one which will not be severed any time soon, hence dismissal is off the table.

Blimey, Dave has been grabbed by the short and curlies.

 

[markjay]

Blimey, Dave has been grabbed by the short and curlies.

[YOUTUBE]Oz8RjPAD2Jk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[markjay]

It would seem that Dave's option are as follows:

'Tough' - i.e. fulfil his minimum legal obligations under employment law

'Investigate' - spend some time in finding out if it is indeed the case that the job centre wont reimburse her for past SSP

'Pay-up' - just pay her what her what she is asking for which should keep things quite until she gives birth

As for dismissal.... HR people say a deep new bond has just been created between the pregnant employee and her new workplace, and one which will not be severed any time soon, hence dismissal is off the table.

Dave having an inquisitive mind and being firmly on the fence on most issue in life chose 'Investigate' and entrusted the task to a person with suitable qualifications, who called the HMRC SSP Helpline (yes, such a thing does exist) and they confirmed that the local Job Centre was wrong in saying the lady in question can not recover past SSP from when she first fell ill.

So Dave's mate will advise the employee to call the helpline herself and let them assist with a resolution.

Watch this space....

 

[Mike Walker]

The above makes my friend Dave's experiences with a colleague that he was Line Manager for seem like child's play.

As I understand it said "colleague" would regularly call Dave on a Monday morning around 7am and leave a message on his voicemail saying she was unwell but would try to get in. She didn't.

Conversations overheard between "colleague" and another lady led people to think that drink /drugs might be involved in the illness, so a drugs test for all staff was arranged. It transpired that the "colleague" refused to take the test when her name was drawn at random. Unfortunately, as I understand it, refusal to take test was a "red card" offence so letters were written and the route to the exit door explained quite forcibly..........

 

[E55BOF]

Is the illness which made this employee of Dave's unable to come to work something solidly diagnosable and treatable, or something with vague symptoms which could easily be feigned? And when is the baby due?

Nasty, cynical old git that I am, I suspect a deliberate plan on the part of the employee to ensure an income for herself for quite some time, for which she need do virtually nothing. Or am I wide of the mark?

I suppose any system will inevitably be open to abuse, but it is rather ironic, really; employment rights which are there to stop employers grinding the faces of the downtrodden workers can now be used by the workers to grind the faces of their employers.

 

[markjay]

Dave just learnt that as of April 2016, NI no longer pay SSP to employees... the burden has been passed to the employer.

So Dave is fortunate that the lady is a part-time worker and did not reach the SSP earnings threshold - and her SSP is therfore paid as Benefits by the Job Centre.

Otherwise Dave would be looking at paying her ~£400 per month for the foreseeable future.

So the lady is not out of pocket, and neither is Dave - result (on this occasion, anyway).

 

[markjay]

Is the illness which made this employee of Dave's unable to come to work something solidly diagnosable and treatable, or something with vague symptoms which could easily be feigned? And when is the baby due?
.

Without going into details, it was apparently an urgent operation, though if you are cynic you might wonder if it wasn't in fact a scheduled operation....?

Anyway it's academic, Dave things.